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Thread: Was there an Anglo-Saxon Wipe Out in England?

  1. #41
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    I've been reading Bede lately, and according to his history of the English people prior to the Saxon invasions and after the final Roman legions left Britain the Irish and Picts began raiding and such with the Britons not having a military force as their war men were gone for a number of reasons (Roman military service so they left with the legions, sickness, death from early raids, etc...), plus there was famine and pestilence. Sounds to me that by the time the Saxons came they would not have had much to do to really make the native Britons numbers dwindle, now this brings up the question of why the autosomal genetic similarity between English folk and their other Insular neighbors?

    It could be that the Anglo-Saxon's utilized a practice similar to the Roman foederati forming their military forces from various groups of Northern and Northwestern European peoples not just Germanic but Celto-Germanic or even Celto to a smaller extent, like today a big inspiration for military action is payment of some sort and one could bet that when rumor spreads about a large warband heading out to conquer an island supposedly well suited for farming and bountiful in plunder folks are gonna want in on that band wagon.

    So in turn if the initial Anglo-Saxon waves were already consisting of a Celto-Germanic man base, by the time all those descendants of the various soldiers and other settlers in those large bands got to mix their blend would look very similar to what we are seeing today in Britain.

    We can tell based on the genetic maps that the Celto component is pulling the English towards the Irish and such while the Germanic component is pulling them towards the Germans, as a whole English folk are naturally most similar to other English folk and in some cases to other Isle inhabitants (these latter being probably recent Anglo-Scots or Anglo-Irish mixes) while others cluster farther towards the Germans with a slighter pull towards the Irish and such (these ones more than likely being those of all or mostly all English ancestry thus their greater pull towards other Germanics with their more slight Celtic pull being the result of possibly the other parts of the early war bands in combination with the even smaller numbers of remaining Britons).
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadwallon
    I've been reading Bede lately, and according to his history of the English people prior to the Saxon invasions and after the final Roman legions left Britain the Irish and Picts began raiding and such with the Britons not having a military force as their war men were gone for a number of reasons (Roman military service so they left with the legions, sickness, death from early raids, etc...), plus there was famine and pestilence. Sounds to me that by the time the Saxons came they would not have had much to do to really make the native Britons numbers dwindle, now this brings up the question of why the autosomal genetic similarity between English folk and their other Insular neighbors?
    Bede got his information for this period essentially from Gildas, who used a fair bit of hyperbole in his accounts, as did continental writers of the same period, with the barbarian invasions occuring.

    Other sources indicate that there were times of reasonable prosperity in this era, and many British kingdoms survived in their own right until close to two centuries after the departure of Roman rule. In fact it would appear that the Britons themselves may have taken things into their own hands and expelled the last of the failing Roman administrators, and organised their own defence.

    So I don't think they were really left helpless when the Romans left.

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