Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 42

Thread: Was there an Anglo-Saxon Wipe Out in England?

  1. #21
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    2 Days Ago @ 05:01 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    71
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    211
    Thanked in
    124 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonCeorl View Post
    How else can you explain the complete lack of Celtic words in English and the complete lack of Celtic place names in England?
    I'm afraid the assumption of a complete lack of Celtic place names in England doesn't stand the trial of time. It is simply that they went through the Romanic mouth first. Notable examples of this are places such as York, which is especially notable for being in "traditional Germanic territory":

    The Romanic name we have for this place is Eburacum, whose Celticity is fairly evident --- if we see a Common Brythonic Eborakon as the root, we have inner-Celtic comparison on the dendronym (< *eburos "yew", cf. Welsh efwr, Irish iobhar, Scottish Gaelic iubhar, Breton evor), have comparable toponyms across Celtic-speaking Europe (Ebura in Hispania Baetica, Eburobrittium [near Óbidos], Ebora [Évora]; and even ethnonyms: a Celtiberian tribe were the Eburancí; two Gallic tribes were the Eburones and Eburovices.

    The other option would be that it is not a dendronym in itself, but an anthroponym: It is not uncommon in Celtic naming to be named after a sacred plant, which yew evidently was (explaining the tribal namings with continental Celts). In either instance, that would also lend some striking evidence for its Celticity --- the inner-Celtic rooting is still present.

    So, for York we have: Celtic *Eborakon becomes Latin Eboracum/Eburacum. The Anglo-Saxons hear this and re-interpret it as Eoforwīc, meaning "wild-boar town". Later, the Norse arrive and hear this and use folk etymology once more for Jórvik, meaning "horse bay". Over time, this is contracted to York.

    I could apply the same process to at least ten other very English-sounding place-names or very Latin-sounding place-names, but for now the most striking and well-documented example of York will do the service, I suppose. You spoke of a complete lack of Celtic names, I have my QED.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  2. #22
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Ingvaeonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    Friday, July 12th, 2019 @ 03:02 AM
    Ethnicity
    English/German combo
    Country
    Australia Australia
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Gender
    Zodiac Sign
    Sagittarius
    Posts
    1,752
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    21
    Thanked in
    17 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress Germania View Post
    As genetic science advances the facts will emerge. For exaple the scinece is not accurate enough yet to divide the Saxon and Danish genes in England. There have been many DNA studies and Germanic scientists tend to conclude England is Germanic, British scientists/historians tend to conclude England is British and Jewsish scientists/historians tend to conclude the British are a mongrel race. Results tend to agree with the agenda of the ethnic group of the scientist/historian.


    In Chesterfield, which was settled by the Romans, there are many people there who look as Italian as any Italian or Italian-American and have Italian surnames, 2000 years later. But ten miles down the road in the next town there is no such Italian population. Where invaders settled, there still tends to be a population left behind. For example look at this map of Danish settlement names:

    That's quite a few Danish settlements. Over half of England settled by Danes, who would have been absorbed eventually into the local Anglo-Saxon population infusing more Germanic blood into the English. I really can't see how the English, the real, genetic English if you like, could be anything other than thoroughly Germanic. So now we have four Germanic peoples in the ethnic composition of the English. Excellent.

  3. #23
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Barreldriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Tuesday, March 27th, 2012 @ 03:56 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    State
    Tennessee Tennessee
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    531
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress Germania View Post
    As genetic science advances the facts will emerge. There have been many DNA studies, and Germanic scientists tend to conclude England is Germanic (Weile, Weiss, Wager, Badman), British/Basque scientists/historians tend to conclude England is British etc (Oppenheimer, Sykes). Results tend to take the side of the ethnic group of the scientist/historian.

    This is the study I always cite:
    Y-Chromosome studies are very limited, that part of the genome doesn't count for much regarding overall ancestry, and when it comes to overall autosomal ancestry the folks of the British Isle's cluster closest to each other with individual minor pulls towards places like Germany and France mostly (some towards Norway and Sweden), these pulls though are not so strong as to pull them out from the British Isle's cluster, just shift their position within the cluster, thus they are more "British" than anything else, the similarities to Germans (via Anglo-Saxons) and Scandinavians (via Vikings and such) is a lesser part of the over all ancestral picture.

    As a whole though the closest non-British Isle's population to the British Isle's cluster is the Germans, so logically the next highest influence after Briton is Anglo-Saxon, the Scandinavian and Norman having a lesser influence.

    I will re-post this map from December 10th, 2010, the latest map from the Eurogenes Project (recently given thumbs up in a nature news article):

    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

  4. #24
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 10:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    In Chesterfield, which was settled by the Romans, there are many people there who look as Italian as any Italian or Italian-American and have Italian surnames, 2000 years later. But ten miles down the road in the next town there is no such Italian population. Where invaders settled, there still tends to be a population left behind. For example look at this map of Danish settlement names

    I'm not actually sure who said this. It was quoted as FG's, but it wasn't in the original post. Maybe it was edited out?

    Anyway, if they have Italian surnames, then they're obviously of recent Italian descent. Not surprising, given Chesterfield's large Catholic community. My dad went to school with a few, and this was in the 50s. There'll be more now. Romans 2000 years ago didn't have 'Italian' surnames as we know them today (Rossi, Ferarri, Leone etc.). And there are no Anglo-Italian surnames in existence, while there are, for example, many Anglo-Norman surnames (e.g. Saville, Beaumont etc.). I'm not saying there's no Italian blood in Roman settlements in Britain, but saying people who look Italian and have Italian surnames have had lineages in England for 2000 years is laughable, no offence.

  5. #25
    Lost in Melancholia
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Thusnelda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Bavarian tribe
    Ancestry
    Bavarian
    Subrace
    Nordid-Borreby
    State
    Bavaria Bavaria
    Location
    Over the hills and far away
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Occupation
    Breathing the forest
    Politics
    Regionalist-conservative
    Religion
    Ásatrú/Forn Siđr
    Posts
    4,380
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    37
    Thanked in
    26 Posts
    Hasn´t the North-English town "Carlisle" near the border to Scotland a Gaelic, thus Celtic, name? It means "City at the wall" in Gaelic. So there doesn´t seem to be a complete lack of Celtic place names in England. And I´m pretty sure there´re some more examples. Gaelic is a tree of the Celtic languages (q-celtic).

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #26
    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 9th, 2011 @ 11:57 PM
    Ethnicity
    Nordic/Germanic/Celtic/Hiberno/Eireannach
    Ancestry
    Germany/Norway/Denmark/Gaul/Hibernia/Ireland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Dyflin
    Gender
    Family
    free!
    Occupation
    Artizan
    Politics
    Republican
    Religion
    Atheist/Existentialist
    Posts
    96
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    The very familiar river 'Avon' is 'Celtic' in origin!

  7. #27
    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 9th, 2011 @ 11:57 PM
    Ethnicity
    Nordic/Germanic/Celtic/Hiberno/Eireannach
    Ancestry
    Germany/Norway/Denmark/Gaul/Hibernia/Ireland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Dyflin
    Gender
    Family
    free!
    Occupation
    Artizan
    Politics
    Republican
    Religion
    Atheist/Existentialist
    Posts
    96
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Aber: River mouth or ford
    Afon: River
    Allt: Hillside
    Avon; Esk; Eye; Dee: River
    Bedd: Grave
    Bre-; Drum; Don: Hill
    Caer: Fortress
    Capel: Chapel
    Carnedd: Cairn
    Castell: Castle
    Coed: Wood
    Coombe - a deep valley
    Cwm: Valley
    Dinas: City
    Glan: River Bank
    Glen - a narrow valley
    Hamps: Dry stream in Summer
    Llan: Church
    Llyn: Lake
    Mawr: Big
    Môr: Sea
    Mynydd: Mountain
    Pant: Hollow
    Pen; Bryn: Hill; Head
    Plas: Palace
    Pont; Bont: Bridge
    Porth: Harbour
    Tre: Hamlet; Village; Town
    Treath: Beach
    Ynys: Island

  8. #28
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Barreldriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Tuesday, March 27th, 2012 @ 03:56 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    State
    Tennessee Tennessee
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    531
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Isn't Ouse as well? My lineage came from the along the Ouse where it flows into the Trent (Whitgift and Blacktoft), Ouse is from the Celtic word 'Usa', from *udso-, which simply means 'water'. 'River Ouse' therefore actually means 'River Water', etymologically.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ouse,_Yorkshire

    Go figure that my folks have a Briton Y-DNA signature (R-S116* for the SNP haplogroup side [many associate this group with the Proto-Celts and Bell Beakers], for the STR haplotype side I'm R1b-6, Oppenheimer said my DNA is rare and specific only to Britain (mostly found in Yorkshire and the Southeast near Norfolk, it is extremely rare elsewhere in Britain).
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

  9. #29
    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 9th, 2011 @ 11:57 PM
    Ethnicity
    Nordic/Germanic/Celtic/Hiberno/Eireannach
    Ancestry
    Germany/Norway/Denmark/Gaul/Hibernia/Ireland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Dyflin
    Gender
    Family
    free!
    Occupation
    Artizan
    Politics
    Republican
    Religion
    Atheist/Existentialist
    Posts
    96
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    "Ouse is from the Celtic word 'Usa', from *udso-, which simply means 'water'."


    Yep Cadwallon....that's correct ... "Uisce" being the full gaelic word for water.

    WYB ... "Uisce Beatha" is original Gaelic for what became "Whiskey"

    "Uisce Beatha" meaning " Water of Life"

    Sláinte! Cheers!

  10. #30
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    2 Days Ago @ 05:01 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    71
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    211
    Thanked in
    124 Posts
    The list you provide, one should know, is most true only for Brythonic-derived names; which we count amongst the P-Celtic languages. It's certainly not true for the Goidelic branch (which we count amongst the Q-Celtic languages). And most certainly, we're looking to derive things from an even earlier stage, to prove its celticity, which can only be done via the older stage of the language; which would have dunon for city.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Why is Anglo-Saxon of No Significance in England?
    By MetallicPain in forum England
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Saturday, May 5th, 2012, 07:20 AM
  2. Map of Anglo-Saxon England
    By Blutwölfin in forum Middle Ages
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Friday, September 21st, 2007, 06:06 PM
  3. A sign that Anglo-Saxon England may yet survive?
    By anonymaus in forum England
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Wednesday, December 28th, 2005, 05:55 PM
  4. The Slave Trade in Anglo-Saxon England
    By Blutwölfin in forum Ancient
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, July 17th, 2005, 11:29 AM
  5. Anglo-Saxon Monarchs of England
    By Awar in forum Middle Ages
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Sunday, August 29th, 2004, 12:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •