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Thread: Can a Person/Family with Dark Hair Have Ancestors Who Were Blonde?

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    Can a Person/Family with Dark Hair Have Ancestors Who Were Blonde?

    I would like to know if it is genetically possible for a family of mostly dark haired people in the current generation to have a lineage of ancestors who were blonde or red haired a few generations back. Does having dark hair necessarily mean that all of your ancestors did? Or is it possible to have dark hair and still have up to 6 blonde/light haired great grandparents?

    For example, my grandfather's family. My grandfather had darkblonde hair and blue eyes and was German on the fathers side and German-Boheamian on the mother's side. Therefore, my grandfather's ancestors, if their heritage was authentic, were all of German descent.

    But, I have a picture of my grandfather's "siblings", who were born to the brother of my grandfather's father, and the sister of my grandfather's mother (my great grandfather himself had only one childe who was my grandfather). In essence, they share the same grandparents as my grandfather. The picture is in black and white, but they appear to have dark hair. Which seems kind of strange to me because they are of German descent. They had light eyes I think, it was only their hair that was dark.


    I have included a link to the photo for reference:

    http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/t...935Wessels.jpg

    The father of the family is the one standing there on the left side. The mother is sitting in the throne. The rest are their offspring, which are the "siblings" of my grandfather.


    So, my question is: given the rules of genetics, is there a chance that the ancestors of these persons who have lived in Germany for centuries possessed lighter, blonder hair and the blonde genes just didn't carry over to that generation? Could it be that our German ancestors were originally blonde or lighter haired some centuries ago, but the family's hair colour got darker as the generations passed? Does ancestral blondism in early generations sometimes not carry over to future generations?


    Please ask questions if you would like me to explain this question better.

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    Yes definitely. I and my siblings all have dark hair and eyes. My father has blonde hair and green eyes. Both his parents also had blonde hair and light eyes while some of my father's siblings are dark haired. My mother has brown hair and eyes, same as her father while her mother was completely Nordid.

    Another example is where both my brother and his wife have brown hair and eyes while their daughter was born with dark blonde hair and blue eyes. From what I can remember from high school Biology it can skip a generation or two and then reappear, but I believe the experts here on Skadi would be able to explain it better.

    P.S. Hope you could make sense from it all!

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    Yes, of course. I have dark hair, as does my father. My mother has red hair. My maternal grandfather is blonde, as is my paternal grandmother. I have a multitude of light haired great grandparents. My girlfriend is blonde, if we were to have children it's more likely they would have dark or intermediate hair, however it would be possible for us to produce light haired children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallflower View Post
    I would like to know if it is genetically possible for a family of mostly dark haired people in the current generation to have a lineage of ancestors who were blonde or red haired a few generations back. Does having dark hair necessarily mean that all of your ancestors did? Or is it possible to have dark hair and still have up to 6 blonde/light haired great grandparents?

    For example, my grandfather's family. My grandfather had darkblonde hair and blue eyes and was German on the fathers side and German-Boheamian on the mother's side. Therefore, my grandfather's ancestors, if their heritage was authentic, were all of German descent.

    But, I have a picture of my grandfather's "siblings", who were born to the brother of my grandfather's father, and the sister of my grandfather's mother (my great grandfather himself had only one childe who was my grandfather). In essence, they share the same grandparents as my grandfather. The picture is in black and white, but they appear to have dark hair. Which seems kind of strange to me because they are of German descent. They had light eyes I think, it was only their hair that was dark.
    Not all German's will have light hair and I'm sure many have dark hair. Further, it were common for men of that era to grease the hair, thus giving the physically dark appearance.

    To answer your question, blond hair and light eyes or some combination of the two is not necessarily passed on to all siblings born to light haired and/or eyed parents..

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    I think this is the treatise of mine that I've self-quoted most often, but here we go once more - on the question of blonde/brown hair.


    Genetics in a nutshell.


    Eye pigment is made up out of 0-6 dominant genes. The parents can pass on the sum of both of their dominant genes at maximum:

    0 - light blue; 1 - grey-blue; 2 grey/blue-green; 3 - green to hazel; 4 - medium brown; 5 - dark brown; 6 - black.

    Hance two parents with blue-green eyes could have children that have an eye color between light blue and medium brown.

    Hair pigment is mainly made up of Melanine. There you have Eumelanine and Pheomelanine, but it is enough to concentrate on Eumelanine since it answers the question.

    Assume for the sake of it, that half of the genes determining hair colour come from the mother and father and that each of them pass on 4 genes...now let's use "h" for light pigment and "H" for dark pigment.

    hhhhhhhh - white blonde
    HHHHHHHH - black

    Now assuming that both parents are dark blonde (HHHhhhhh - HHHhhhhh) - [which could well be possible, if their parents were both middle-blonde then they have a good chance to have anything up to light brown[ - all combinations between white blonde (hhhhhhhh) and darkish medium brown (HHHHHHhh) become possible.

    In a way this could work the other way round as well. I will use a family example to highlight this, in fact that is what happened with the sister of my father: Grandmother, dark brown (HHHHHHhh) + Grandfather, light brown (HHHHhhhh) = Aunt, medium blonde (HHhhhhhh)

    Hence, it becomes possible that the children of two blonde, blue-eyed parents can indeed be brown-eyed and brown-haired. Now even assuming that all of their ancestors were of pure Nordid phenotype (whose typical pigmentation is assumed to be medium blonde), so will the children be of pure Nordid phenotype (there are no other racial influences for them) - since, even though the children will have "wrong" pigment, the facial and bodily features will be manifestly Nordid.

    Anything else is a simplification of genetics to push an agenda.
    Since the vast majority of blond-haired people don't tend to be white-blonde but generally medium-blonde such is possible in as little as two generations even if all four grandparents were medium-blonde. With two dark-blonde parents it is possible in one generation.

    The complete converse - with all four grand-parents being dark brown (HHHHHHhh) and both parents being light-brown (HHHHhhhh) actually makes it theoretically possible for the child to be absolute über-recessive white-blonde (hhhhhhhh). The chances for this to happen are fairly slim, as "in doubt" dominance prevails, but they are mathematically possible even if statistically comparedly rare.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    On the issue of red hair - here following a more simplified counter of "dominant/recessive" instead of dealing with the full "four gene model" for "extra simplicity", here is a recent post of mine, originally posted here. I'm quoting again for convenience's sake, you're probably not that different from me in not wanting to have a hundred open tabs.

    Essentially, it is just a genetic disposition, and we know at least five different genetic causes for rufosity throughout the world, but they are all likely traceable to a genetic mutation (rather than anomaly) within the Chromosome-Pair #16.

    Essentially, there is nothing absurd about having red hair --- it is just that there are two types of melanine that are responsible for our hair colour (and also other pigment).

    These are Eumelanine and Pheomelanine. Eumelanine is sub-split into Brown Eumelanine and Black Eumelanine; the former is predominantly found in Europeans and the latter is almost exclusively, and most commonly found in non-Europeans (though they may have Brown Eumelanine as well).

    What we are interested in with red hair is the Pheomelanine. Typically it just means that there are far greater levels of pheomelanine than of eumelanine in a certain person. Someone with bright orangy red hair will typically be white-blonde on the Eumelanine level and have red-hair and the Eumelanine level, in many cases with two copies of the gene.

    People with high levels of Eumelanine and low levels of Pheomelanine will be a dark brunette; people with high levels of Pheomelanine and low levels of Eumelanine will be redheads; people with low levels of both Pheomelanine and Eumelanine will be blonde; and people with high levels of both Pheomelanine and Eumelanine will be auburn.

    Certainly, many more people are carriers of the gene; and strangely enough it shines through typically giving hair a bit of a "reddish tinge". If you're auburn of any description then you are at least a carrier (dominant/recessive pair) - here it is unimportant of whether it is just a reddish tinge on top of dark-brown hair or light-brown hair with an obvious red hint: dominant copies of Eumelanine "overshadow" Pheomelanine --- which is why it is actually more likely that two carrier parent organisms who appear to be fully dark-brown will have a redhead child than two light-blonde parents - If they were carriers, they'd almost certainly have strawberry blonde hair themselves (as this is a level where it overshadows the base colour). Many "bright orangey" redheads have white-blonde body hair as well.

    This is quite curious, as I only have a reddish tinge to middle/dark brown hair (my mother had nothing dominant to pass on - the few ash-blonde hairs in between just make it look darker in bad light), but obviously dominant/recessive pairs both on the genes responsible for determining the levels of Eumelanine and Pheomelanine. This means if I had children with a "full redhead", the chances of a red-haired child would be around 50% (with chances for brown haired and blonde children rather equal at 25% each; homozygously brown-haired children would be impossible; and all children would at least be carriers both of blondism and rufosity) and if I had children with a girl with a reddish tinge the children would be as statistically likely to have red hair as blonde hair - both around 25% even though neither of us were obvious redheads nor obvious blondes.

    Back to the general level of the discussion - the reason why "full redheads" have extremely light skin is that Eumelanine is also responsible for colouring of the skin. When they have low levels of that it stands to reason that they have extremely light skin tone.
    Hope that all helped.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
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    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Can a Person/Family with Dark Hair Have Ancestors Who Were Blonde?
    Sure can.
    My mother is dark headed,olive skin from her Italian side,she was born with blond hair but turn very dark very quickly....myself,my sister and brother had white hair until we hit puberty,Even now,we have ash Blond hair.
    I am Blond and my mothers side has dark features going back for centuries.
    (It dose help by having an Father with Blond hair though)

    I do have a great pic of the three of us with white hair but not to sure I am aloud to post images as yet.

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    The genes that give a person blond or red hair are recessive, so it won't take much contribution from 'darker' genes to overwrite them. I say it's very possible you had blond or ginger ancestors, but it's also obvious that you had dark haired ones.

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    Um... Yeah...

    Dominant Hair Colors

    # Dark hair is dominant over blonde and light hair. Non-red hair colors such as blonde and brunette take precedence over red hair.

    Recessive Hair Colors

    # Recessive hair colors include blonde hair, light hair, and red hair. This also means that although blonde hair is dominant over red hair, it is recessive to dark hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle View Post
    # Recessive hair colors include blonde hair, light hair, and red hair. This also means that although blonde hair is dominant over red hair, it is recessive to dark hair.
    Not quite - blonde hair is not dominant enough to overshadow red hair, that's why people then end up strawberry blonde. Actually it won't properly be overshadowed by dominant/recessive pairs, that's where the reddish tinge to my hair, albeit brown, comes from.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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