Much of Germany Was 100% Celtic?

[Wynterwade]

I'm shocked at this information I've found. Everything I thought I knew about my ancestors has been turned upside down.

Here's what I did-
I decided to research my ancestors and see what their culture, religion, and language was like thousands of years ago. So I set off looking for information on my ancestors who came from two places; 1) The British Isles and 2) Southern Germany.

Here's what I found-
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1) Southern Germany was the heart of the Celtics until at least 275 BC-


The dark yellow is Celtic Tribes in the 6th Century BC and all the other colors are the Celtics in 275 BC.
( Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts )
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2) Germany had little influence by Germanic Tribes early on-


The picture shows in red the Germanic Tribes in 1,200BC.


The above picture shows the expansion of the Germanic tribes from 750 BC to 1AD.

( Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanics )
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3) The Celtics had MASSIVE influence-

This is absolutely incredible- and blew my mind. The Celtic tribes eventually spread from Southern Germany to most of...

- Spain ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtiberian_language)
- Austria and Slovenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noric_language)
- France, Belgium, Western Germany and Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish_language)
- the entire British Isles
- small parts of Ukraine
-Northern Italy
- even parts of Turkey! ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatian_language )

Look back up at the first picture you can see the linguistic influence in each of those countries!
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After finding out all that I thought- well I'm sure I have many Germanic ancestors that migrated to the British Isles but then I found this...

4) How Germanic genetically is England-

Using DNA evidence, Sykes and Oppenheimer claim that even in the east of England, where there is the best evidence for migration, no more than 10% of paternal lines may be designated as coming from an "Anglo-Saxon" migration event.

(But then again I do recall reading that certain towns in Scotland have 50% Scandinavian paternal DNA lines. My opinion is, if only part of a country that speaks a Germanic Language is 10% genetically Germanic then I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same thing that happened to Southern Germany.)




This has turned everything I thought I knew about my ancestors upside down.

(I put this in the Germanic Heathery section because, Instead of just buying a book about Germanic mythology I also decided to grab one about Celtic mythology).

[Wynterwade]

Nobody has anything to say about this?

I think this is one of the most dramatic posts on here in a long time.

[Heathen_son]

What does this have to do with Germanic Heathenry?

[Wynterwade]

What does this have to do with Germanic Heathenry?
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Because,

1) Southern Germany was a follower of Celtic heathenry rather than Germanic Heathenry.

2) The Danish Viking emigrants comprise only a small contribution to the overall English genetics. (at most only 10% in Eastern English areas).

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So this means that if your Southern German or English, contrary to what most people probably think, most of your ancestors were probably not Germanic heathens but Celtic heathens.

[GermanJerseyGuy]

I thought it was common knowledge that the Germanics pushed the Celtic tribes to the West and South.

[Elessar]

Yes, this is true. interesting yes, but shocking no.
Germany's Celtic influence has long since been extinct or interbred with the stronger Germanic tribes. Still however some celtic place names still exsist
Names of rivers, first of all the Rhine (Renos) and Danube (Danuvius) have Celtic names. In Irish rian corresponds to Renos exactly, the name Danuvius is applied to the upper course of the Danube which flowed through Celtic country, in Irish Dana means swift. Ister if the Illyrian, eastern name of the river.
If you'd like to read more about Celtic connections in Germany I would recommend reading H. Huberts "The Rise of Civilization: The Rise of the Celts"

This isnt breaking news or anything...

[Wulfram]

Germany's Celtic influence has long since been extinct or interbred with the stronger Germanic tribes.

Is it possible that without the early Celtic influence that Germanics would not have become as great?
Did they become great only after the Celtic influence became extinct?

[Wynterwade]

"Did they become great only after the Celtic influence became extinct?"
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Well if the Celtic language is known to have existed in the far corners of Europe-

In the Southwest- Spain
In the South East- Turkey
In the North West- British Isles
In the Northeast- Ukraine

I think it's safe to say that the Celtics were "great".
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Also Walhalla-Wacht I just bought the book "The Rise of Civilization: The Rise of the Celts" from amazon for $3.00, Thank you for the recommendation.

[Elessar]

You have to take into consideration that much of (if not all) of the lands of the Celts was conquered by Rome. Remember now, it was the Germans along the North of the Rhine that stopped their advance further into Germania. By that time most Celts have been subdued and Romanized.

Another question to ask is what exactly is Celtic and German?
Celtic simply implies that the tribes of central Europe and the British Isles had a common linguistic heritage, same implies for the title Germanic, more or less considering the racial connection of the Germanic tribes.
To ask a person of the day whether he was Celtic or German, he would answer neither, giving the name of his Tribe rather that the umbrella term given by scholars and classic historians

So to answer your question "Is it possible that without the early Celtic influence that Germanics would not have become as great?
Did they become great only after the Celtic influence became extinct?"
They didnt think of themselves as a single group, and I wouldnt think it was just that great of a transition from Celtica to Germania. You have to take into consideration also that this subject spans thousands of years, not a single event that changed the face of Europe

Simply, the people stayed the same, but their names and culture changed.

It's not something to be ashamed of, I think it's quite humbling to know that somewhere along the line there was a raging Celt in my ancestry.

[Heathen_son]

1) Southern Germany was a follower of Celtic heathenry rather than Germanic Heathenry.

I suspect that this is an over simplification, but I am no expert on continental migration patterns or cultural influence.

2) The Danish Viking emigrants comprise only a small contribution to the overall English genetics. (at most only 10% in Eastern English areas).

The Normans had little influence on the ethnic stock of the Anglo-Saxons either, but that didn't stop them from changing their culture massively.

The tribes that invaded, won, settled, populated and established the primary socio-cultural foundations of the country now known as England, were Germanic Heathen.

So this means that if your Southern German or English, contrary to what most people probably think, most of your ancestors were not Germanic heathens but Celtic heathens.

Well if that is a problem for you, go ahead and switch. I am from England, born from English and South German folk and I practice Germanic Heathenry, and fail to see any reason why I shouldn't.

I honor all my ancestors, the traditional Anglisc gods, and the landwights of England, in modern English, and in Old English where possible, using as close to Anglo-Saxon customs as possible, in the land of the Anglisc.

I also have a Welsh surname