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Thread: Should These People Be Considered White?

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    Should These People Be Considered White?

    People who have a small amount of non-White blood in their veins like for example:

    Johnny Depp (claims 1/8 Cherokee) and Taylor Lautner (claims distant Indian ancestry)

    You could definitely see the exotic admixture in both of them, be it in the skin/hair/eye pigmentation or the facial bone structure, but I believe both of them identify themselves as White.

    In general, are there any circumstances under which these two individuals, or similar individuals could be considered White?

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    People who have a small amount of non-White blood in their veins like for example:

    Johnny Depp (claims 1/8 Cherokee) and Taylor Lautner (claims distant Indian ancestry)
    You could definitely see the exotic admixture in both of them, be it in the skin/hair/eye pigmentation or the facial bone structure,
    Not too long ago,an African couple in England gave birth to a blond hair blue eyed girl.
    Being direct blood to two africans this baby is not white.
    http://www.digit.aljournal.com/article/294922


    but I believe both of them identify themselves as White.

    In general, are there any circumstances under which these two individuals, or similar individuals could be considered White?
    I class these two people white Depp and Taylor,there ethic genes are too far back and weak and only minor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest King View Post
    You could definitely see the exotic admixture in both of them, be it in the skin/hair/eye pigmentation or the facial bone structure...
    That statement answers your own question. Their non-white ancestors could not be that far back if they look "exotic" and the "admixture is clearly visable". If Depp is indeed 1/8 Cherokee, then it would be the equivalent of his great grandparent being fully indian, which is not very distant.

    They (especially Lautner) are clearly not fully European and therefore would not be considered "white" by myself and many others.

    However, if the mix with non-Europoid were to occur further back, it may not be as visible (or not visible at all) and therefore the individual may be considered phenotypically (and possibly genetically) fully Europoid.

    Hammer of Thor

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    Quote Originally Posted by heerssx View Post
    I class these two people white Depp and Taylor,there ethic genes are too far back and weak and only minor.
    Lautner has obvious non Europoid ancestry.



    Depp looks predominantely Europoid, but there is something non Europoid about his look (especially in some pictures).



    Hammer of Thor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest King View Post
    People who have a small amount of non-White blood in their veins like for example:

    Johnny Depp (claims 1/8 Cherokee) and Taylor Lautner (claims distant Indian ancestry)

    You could definitely see the exotic admixture in both of them, be it in the skin/hair/eye pigmentation or the facial bone structure, but I believe both of them identify themselves as White.

    In general, are there any circumstances under which these two individuals, or similar individuals could be considered White?
    White is an ambiguous term that means something different depending on who is using it & where they are located.

    I would say in Europe thay would not be considered "White". In North America (US & Canada) it would be a different matter based on our history. In both countries they would be accepted by most Whites, even before the civil rights & integration movement of the 50s & 60s. Where as there was a one-drop rule against persons with know African ancestry, (Amer)Indian ancestry was not alweays treated the same way. Which is why White Americans have never been shy about claiming American Indian ancestry, even where it was not present. Also having a little bit of injun sort of gives you historical title to the land, before the Europeans came & "stole the land" from the Indians. However both examples you posted are less then 1/2 Amerindian. Fullbloods & 1/2 breeds had social stigmas. But here was generally no legal barriers against marriage between Whites & 1/2 breeds. Though some states had laws preventing marriages between Whites & fullbloded Indians, Arizona for example.

    Hispanics (aka Mestizos, Indians & Mulattoes) are not accepted in the same way. Maybe because of the different racial mix - Medish European + Pueblid & Isthmid Indian versus Nordish European + Silvid Indian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer of Thor View Post
    That statement answers your own question. Their non-white ancestors could not be that far back if they look "exotic" and the "admixture is clearly visable". If Depp is indeed 1/8 Cherokee, then it would be the equivalent of his great grandparent being fully indian, which is not very distant.
    Depp is a year younger then me. Most of my great-grandparents were born between 1872-1893. Assuming Depps great-grandparents were born in the same timeframe it is unlikely he could have a great-grandparent who was 100% Cherokee, because by that time there were basically no fullblooded Cherokees east of the Mississippi. That doesn't mean he doesn't have Indian ancestry, just that I doubt it could be as much as 1/8.

    They (especially Lautner) are clearly not fully European and therefore would not be considered "white" by myself and many others.
    Lautner is odd in that he appeared more "exotic" (non-White) when he was younger:


    ^ Here there is no question that he is non-White. Though his appearance could be because of Silvid admixture combined with European Medish & Dinarid? Lautner is sippose to get his Indian ancestry from his mother but afaik neither his mother or himself are on tribal rolls.


    ^ Compare to Johnny Depp, who as younger looked White.
    However, if the mix with non-Europoid were to occur further back, it may not be as visible (or not visible at all) and therefore the individual may be considered phenotypically (and possibly genetically) fully Europoid.

    Hammer of Thor
    This is something I should have elaborated more in my original post. Depp & Lautner, and I assume other individuals Forest King is referring to, are those persons with Silvid admixture. These persons are a very, very small minority as compared to the White population in the eastern US & Canada. They are not a demographic threat. The conflicts between Indians & Whites (in the East) are just long ago history. There are some areas where there are still pockets of Indians, who may or may not be recognized, and in those areas there may still be a racial divide - in parts of North Carolina (the Lumbee Community) or Upstate New York with various Iroquois tribes, parts of far north Wisconsis or Minnesota. But generally they do not make up a great number at any place, and this accounts for their acceptance by Whites. And notice I say by not as. The fact that on average they tend to have a large amount of White blood also influences how they are viewed by Whites.

    In the West of Canada & the US the situation is different. The history (Indian wars) is more recent, and while many Indians (in the mist of a much larger White population) in the East had no tribal recognition or reservation (unless they accepted resettlement in Oklahoma), in the West they were given reservations at the time of their conquest & their seperateness as Indians was preserved & is still recognized. There really is no White people in the West proclaiming they are Apache, Navajo or Nez Perce, in the same way you have blond-hair blueyed Nordids claiming they are Cherokee or Choctaw in the East.

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    There is certainly a certain level at which one has to decide whether a certain individual is to be considered "White" or not, and people will not always agree when this is: 1/16? 1/32? 1/64? Differing from race to race? Typically there'll be a certain measure of admixture where it cannot be told one way or the other, as some will look and act "White" and some will look and act "non-White", and one could apply that as an extra counter.

    The above examples show only one thing though; to me they're not to be considered "White", admixture is still visible, and the fact that they make this part of their ancestry widely known probably means they don't feel "all White" themselves. So the only thing they tell us is that 1/8 of admixture is most certainly too much for them to be considered "White" by any stretch of imagination.

    So to answer the original question: No, they're not "White" to me, no more white than Ryan Giggs, Wentworth Miller or Lewis Hamilton for that matter. It's not a gradient of "Whiteness", you either are or you aren't. And they all most certainly aren't regardless of their admixture, which in all listed cases including your example is too much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest King View Post
    People who have a small amount of non-White blood in their veins like for example:

    Johnny Depp (claims 1/8 Cherokee) and Taylor Lautner (claims distant Indian ancestry)
    How is 1/8th a small amount? And Lautner doesn't even look half European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    How is 1/8th a small amount? And Lautner doesn't even look half European.
    It's small in the sense that he (Depp) looks almost European. He certainly doesn't look like an Amerindian. I agree about Lautner, I don't know what he meant when he said he had "distant" Indian ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Assuming Depps great-grandparents were born in the same timeframe it is unlikely he could have a great-grandparent who was 100% Cherokee, because by that time there were basically no fullblooded Cherokees east of the Mississippi. That doesn't mean he doesn't have Indian ancestry, just that I doubt it could be as much as 1/8.
    You are correct when you state that Depp looks mostly Europoid, certainly more so than Lautner. However, the non Europoid admixture is still visible.

    I don't know how significant the Indian ancestry is in Depp or if it is indeed Cherokee, that is simply what he states. Most people who claim Indian ancestry in the United States always seem to claim Cherokee. I see no reason why it could not be 1/8, because there is a visable admixture (especially as he grows older).

    Hammer of Thor

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