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Thread: Was Germany's WWII Alliance With Japan In Line With Their Racial Ideology?

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    Was Germany's WWII Alliance With Japan In Line With Their Racial Ideology?

    We dealt with this some on the anti-Americanism thread. I'm interested in seeing the rationale for thinking Germany was right to endanger whites in East Asia by aligning with the Japanese imperialists. At one point the Nazis even claimed that the concept of the Yellow Peril, formulated by Kaiser Wilhelm, was illusory. Do we have any comments on this?

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    So the topic is whether or not non-German Germanics should curb their sympathy for NS Germany because of the Nazis' military alignment with a power who was a danger to non-German Germanics living and working in East Asia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    We dealt with this some on the anti-Americanism thread. I'm interested in seeing the rationale for thinking Germany was right to endanger whites in East Asia by aligning with the Japanese imperialists. At one point the Nazis even claimed that the concept of the Yellow Peril, formulated by Kaiser Wilhelm, was illusory. Do we have any comments on this?
    Yes , it was a bit strange that Hitler respected his alliance with the Japs by declaring war on the US , Hitler also wanted his anti-jewish campaign to spread even to japan. I remember a pbs documentary where it seems that he made some kind of a bargain with the japs , whether it was for himmler to provide creative ideas for anti-american propaganda or something else I don't quite recall , but the result were oriental plays being conducted in theatre within japan that degraded the jews. one jew remarked as being horrified after attending the play that hitler would literally take his campaign across the globe. i guess the jews believed that the japs were too naieve .

    However, Hitler wasn't concerned with all whites, he bombed the living daylights out of his surrounding european neighbors , he commented that roosevelts wife resembled a negroid , and he called the american administration the term ... mongrels. he was concerned with the preservation of the german ethnicity , he believed that the english , americans , australians , amongst others were threats to german purity. and that's exactly why he invaded them .... the germans by this time were victims of european political schemes that were designed by such countries such as the english , the germans sensed that they were cornered with all of the alliances going against them.

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    This is interesting, and arguably damning:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%...nese_relations

    General Yamashita also met and talked with Hitler, on whom he commented:

    "I felt, that in the mind of Hitler there was much of spiritual matters, transcending material plans. When I met the Führer he said that since boyhood he had been attracted by Japan. He read carefully reports of Japan's victory over Russia when he was only 17 years old and was impressed by Japan's astonishing strength."[45]
    According to Yamashita, Hitler allegedly promised to remember Japan in his will, by instructing the Germans "to bind themselves eternally to the Japanese spirit." In fact, General Yamashita was so excited that he said: "In a short time, something great will happen. You just watch and wait."

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    Originally Posted by WernerGerman
    Yes , it was a bit strange that Hitler respected his alliance with the Japs by declaring war on the US
    True. The Tripartite Pact did not require Germany to come to Japan's aid as it involved an offensive war by the Japanese. It was suicidal stupidity on Hitler's part.

    Hitler also wanted his anti-jewish campaign to spread even to japan. I remember a pbs documentary where it seems that he made some kind of a bargain with the japs , whether it was for himmler to provide creative ideas for anti-american propaganda or something else I don't quite recall , but the result were oriental plays being conducted in theatre within japan that degraded the jews. one jew remarked as being horrified after attending the play that hitler would literally take his campaign across the globe. i guess the jews believed that the japs were too naieve .
    It should be noted that the Japanese went to great pains to insure Jewry that they did not agree with Nazi anti-Semitism.

    However, Hitler wasn't concerned with all whites, he bombed the living daylights out of his surrounding european neighbors , he commented that roosevelts wife resembled a negroid , and he called the american administration the term ... mongrels. he was concerned with the preservation of the german ethnicity , he believed that the english , americans , australians , amongst others were threats to german purity. and that's exactly why he invaded them .... the germans by this time were victims of european political schemes that were designed by such countries such as the english , the germans sensed that they were cornered with all of the alliances going against them.
    Hmmm, this is a bit ahistorical. Germany signed the Anti-Comintern Pact with Japan long before Britain and Germany were enemies. Indeed, Japan was highly annoyed with Germany for signing the Anglo-German Naval Agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    So the topic is whether or not non-German Germanics should curb their sympathy for NS Germany because of the Nazis' military alignment with a power who was a danger to non-German Germanics living and working in East Asia?
    Not really. I'm not even really making a judgment here necessarily. I'm only asking what people think of the German-Japanese alliance and its effect on white people generally. Though the people it affected - French colonists in southeast Asia, Dutch colonists in East Asia, British colonists, Americans both in the US and the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, etc., were mostly Germanic peoples.

    My underlying view though is a belief that the common National Socialist view that the Third Reich was on the side of the white man, whereas the Allies were not, is woefully simplistic. I take a more nuanced view myself...

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    WernerGerman, could I ask where you got that information from in your post about Hitler, above? I'm particularly interested in the part where you say ..

    he was concerned with the preservation of the german ethnicity , he believed that the english , americans , australians , amongst others were threats to german purity. and that's exactly why he invaded them
    ... because I know for a fact that Hitler was not anti-English for a start! Indeed, he sought an alliance with them right up to and even during WW2!! There are numerous sources where Hitler expresses admiration for the British, not least in Mein Kampf, so I suspect you may have fallen victim to some propaganda here!

    I think you should also realise (and this is a fact that over half of British school children are unaware of) that BRITAIN DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY and not vice-versa! So to say he invaded Britain to preserve German racial purity is nonsense, I'm afraid, and even if he HAD done so in what way would this have preserved German purity?? What you say simply doesn't make sense!

    Furthermore, I don't actually remember Hitler invading Australia but, for the record, he was actually quite sad when Singapore (defended by British and Australian troops) fell to the Japanese. David Irving and Alan Bullock (not a pro-Hitler historian by any means!) both refer to this, I believe.

    TBQH, I'm growing a little weary of hearing tales of Hitler's hatred of everywhere that was less German than Germany (ie the whole world!) because of some "racial purity" agenda and they seem to be getting more far-fetched as time goes by. I just think people should consider the facts before writing stuff about how he "invaded" anyone who wasn't German

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    The Germans, Japanese and Italians signed the anti-comintern pact in '36, this alliance intended to block Soviet-Russia's moves. The Germans could also have brought the Chinese into their geopolitical plans, instead of the Japanese.

    In any event, the Japanese had not decided to wage war on the U.S as early as '36. So no, the alliance wasn't treason. Hitler's declaration of war against the U.S. is far more ambiguous, not to mention unsound - yet the question is how much it matters, given the fact that Roosevelt was gearing up for war with Germany and supplied the UK. A German-American war was probably inevitable, and only the sudden collapse of the British Empire might have prevented it - or, alternatively, it could've caused the Americans to step in sooner than they wanted. Seen in this light, the American decision to make the European theatre their priority after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany sided with Japan, is an interesting one indeed.
    Last edited by Chlodovech; Tuesday, August 10th, 2010 at 04:06 AM. Reason: I meant the Anti-comintern Pact, not the Steel Pact!
    "Anyone who hasn’t experienced the ecstasy of betrayal knows nothing about ecstasy at all." – Jean Genet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    The Germans, Japanese and Italians signed the anti-comintern pact in '36, this alliance intended to block Soviet-Russia's moves. The Germans could also have brought the Chinese into their geopolitical plans, instead of the Japanese.
    The Tripartite Pact of 1940 was designed to deter the US from aiding Britain and further to weaken Britain's hold on its colonies in East Asia in advance of Japanese invasion. What Germany really did was to delegate East Asia, which included several European colonial powers, along with two major Anglo settler countries, as Japan's 'sphere of influence'. Was this treason? I'll let others be the judge...

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    My underlying view though is a belief that the common National Socialist view that the Third Reich was on the side of the white man, whereas the Allies were not, is woefully simplistic. I take a more nuanced view myself...
    Speaking for myself, I believe that WW2 was a struggle between Marxism (an essentially Jewish construct) and Nationalism, rather than being a purely racial issue. Although not a big fan of Slavs in general, I'm sure that Hitler's dislike of Russia stemmed more from the fact that Moscow was the very source of Jewish Bolshevism, whilst there is also little doubt that Eisenhower and Churchill were both the puppets of world Jewry.

    So that's how I see it, rather than either side fighting specifically for the cause of Whites. At this point, we come back to that old chestnut about which races are "White" anyway, so I somehow doubt there will be a clear-cut answer to this one, Joe

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    The Tripartite Pact of 1940 is not an event that existed by itself - and it's a logical consequence of the Anti-Comintern Pact of 1936 and the German-Italian Steel Pact of 1939.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    The Tripartite Pact of 1940 was designed to deter the US from aiding Britain
    No treason so far.

    and further to weaken Britain's hold on its colonies in East Asia in advance of Japanese invasion.
    The Tripartite Pact didn't weaken the colonies in a practical manner - the Japanese didn't need the Germans, nor did Germany shape Japan's geopolitical agenda, nor could the Japanese have hoped for German military support in the crucial first year of the war in the Pacific, but the pact strengthened the German position at the time, in 1940 - whether or not a war would interrupt in the Pacific isn't even important in this context.

    What Germany really did was to delegate East Asia, which included several European colonial powers, along with two major Anglo settler countries, as Japan's 'sphere of influence'.
    Yes, the Germans gave their moral support to Japanese expansionism, although article 2 of The Tripartite pact remains vague on the subject.

    Article 2: Germany and Italy recognize and respect the leadership of Japan in the establishment of a new order in Greater East Asia.

    The Tripartite Pact put the Soviet Union in a tight spot, maybe more so than the UK and its allies.

    A Japanese attack on the Soviet Union would've served the German cause way better, and such an attack was still a possibility in 1940 - that's why I point to the Anti-Comintern Pact and the Steel Pact.

    Of course, this doesn't change the fact that Germany eventually teamed up with Japan in december 1941, and the weakening of the European colonies of its enemies wasn't a bad thing for the German war effort, the German leadership probably thought something along the same lines.
    "Anyone who hasn’t experienced the ecstasy of betrayal knows nothing about ecstasy at all." – Jean Genet

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