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Thread: The Merits of a Christian Europe

  1. #1131
    Eala Freia Fresena
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    That Cultural Marxism is against Christianity might not be that far from the truth.

    The funny thing is that Christian are cultural Marxist themselves. The employment of cultural Marxism in their 'christianity' is also proven. You find Zionism rampant among Christian, race mixing is promoted and 'all are equal before God'.

    It is an inner party struggle between Jewish cultural Marxists and Christian cultural Marxists. The basic tenets are the same. The only difference is that one group beliefs in Jewish God and the other beliefs in mammon.

    As I can see today that the tenets are the same and the source of both are the same it tells me, that the scheme is the same. In the past they employed the schimaera of Jewish God in their cultural Marxism and later on they figured it is better to do without.

    But essential the Jewish instigated cultural Marxism of today is the same as the one from 1600 years ago, when they made a 'religion' do destroy the racial and cultural fiber of germanics and celts.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  2. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    That Cultural Marxism is against Christianity might not be that far from the truth.
    Cultural Marxism is obviously against Christianity, because that's what is seen as "traditional" nowadays. Christianity, during its early years, was also against the established traditions. They're not really mutually exclusive, but they're not one and the same either. (And I'm not saying that "traditional" has to equal "good" and "right".)

    But essential the Jewish instigated cultural Marxism of today is the same as the one from 1600 years ago, when they made a 'religion' do destroy the racial and cultural fiber of germanics and celts.
    Were the ancient Jews even aware of the existence of Germanics? In the time when the Bible was written? I doubt it. Maybe they had come into contact with the Celts, since those were a part of the Roman Empire at the time, but I somehow don't think the ancient Hebrews had a special grudge against Celts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Weigelt View Post
    Of course, it's abundantly clear that the attacks against Christianity in this thread are spewed from hate and vitriol against the religion. I've asked the pagan/heathens/whatever to provide one single solitary direct quote from their "gods" and they can't do it. They cannot produce one single quote or definitive doctrine for their so called religion and just keep reiterating the old caveat that paganism is better because it's simply more white or Germanic. I've always said there's a lot of reasons why people hate Christianity, but the most glaring of which is the nagging, persistent realization that when they die they may be wrong.
    As I've mentioned before (maybe not in this thread), the Havamal is considered (at least by the authors I've read lately) to be the words of Odin. You can also attribute the Prophecy of The Morrigan if looking at Celtic heathenry.

    Now we must ask "What is the source, or authority, that establishes these as the words of a god/goddess? Well, an author or two said so. What is the source/authority that the words in the bible are from Yehova? Well, the bible says so. OK, so, once again, a couple of authors claim it.

    "But the words of the bible work in real life!"
    OK, so does the Havamal, which is basically a list of proverbs for daily living, not unlike the book of Proverbs in the bible (most of which are also wisdom for daily life), plus some stories, such as the sacrifice of Odin for the runes.

    Looking at the Prophecy of The Morrigan, it rings quite true as well, not only for the days when she was worshipped, but also for the far future, things which we see happening these days.

    Basic tenets? Look up the Nine Noble Virtues. You will not find them in a list. They are not "The Nine Commandments", but you find the concepts embodied in the Eddas and Sagas, which were then later boiled down into a list. it is by no means exhaustive. I find it more directed to adults in that you have to read the works, and search their deeper meaning, rather than "Here little boy, do this and don't do that."

    Then you have the Catholics who say that you can't go on scripture alone, but tradition and oral proclamations of the pope are as much a part of the religion as the bible. From my observation of the goings on in Catholic churches, I'd say it's mostly tradition, not biblical.

    Guess what? That's the heathen showing through. While it's true we have the Eddas and Sagas, most of the belief is based on tradition. Yet, "Christians" who want to lean on tradition to reconcile gaps and inconsistencies in scripture try to discount heathens for whom their "scripture" (in the sense of writings) aren't dogmatic, but are lessons to be learned, and the traditions and the words of the Gothi are what explains and puts the concepts into practical use.

  4. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    That Cultural Marxism is against Christianity might not be that far from the truth.
    That Cultural Marxism is against Christianity is an obvious statement of both modern politics and historical facts. Outlawing Christianity was one of the first laws the mainly Jewish leaders of the Soviet Union brought in after the Russian revolution.

    As I can see today that the tenets are the same and the source of both are the same it tells me, that the scheme is the same. In the past they employed the schimaera of Jewish God in their cultural Marxism and later on they figured it is better to do without.

    But essential the Jewish instigated cultural Marxism of today is the same as the one from 1600 years ago, when they made a 'religion' do destroy the racial and cultural fiber of germanics and celts.
    Christianity is older than 1600 years, and as has already been mentioned, the Jews hadn't even met the Germanics when the Bible was written.

    Two things always strike me on this subject. First is that even the Marxists telling us they hate Christianity and want to destroy it isn't enough for the anti-Christians to believe it. The Marxists outlawed Christianity when they had the power to do so, and where they didn't have the power to do so they targeted it as one of their highest priorities for destruction via the machinations of groups like the Frankfurt school.

    Secondly, that the people who claim to be the most anti-Jewish and anti-Marxist place the Marxists and Jews on a pedestal and imagine them to have super-human powers of foresight, intelligence, attention to detail, and manipulation, to achieve all they ascribe to them. If i believed for a second that the Jews had been in control of Europe for the last 2,000 years of growth and expansion, i would hail them as worthy leaders and say we should be learning from them instead of fighting them.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  5. #1135
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    Vitriol against Christianity isn't anything new; it can be dated to the 1st and 2nd centuries in the form of attacks by critics, pagan and Jewish alike. The best examples that I can think of come from the fragments of Celsus, Porphyry, a passing comment about the histrionic fanaticism of the Christians in Marcus Aurelius' writings, the Jewish Talmud, etc.

    Question: why isn't there hardly any specifically anti-Christian literary criticism from this time period left?

    Answer: the Christians torched just about everything anti-Christian that they could get their slimy hands on, such as during the reign of the fanatical Spaniard Theodosius 'the Great,' who actively persecuted the pagans with a zealousness that only monotheism seems to engender in its followers (who ever heard of pagans waging holy wars? Did the Germanic and Norse heathens fight to force others to worship Odin et al. like Charles the Great fought to convert the heathen Old Saxons to Catholicism?). Odd bit that- we always hear about the pagan proscriptions of the Christians but seldom ever the opposite- and if we do it's how the dirty idolatrous pagans and heathens had a righteous asskicking coming.

  6. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Does it really matter? The point was the crusades weren't about control of the Silk Road, material plunder, or financial gain.
    It does, I refuted your argument, and thus leaving you with a unsubstantiated claim. This is the basic principle of a discussion, now you would have to come up with a new argument, instead you ask me if it matters? Is this arrogance or ignorance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Well of course they had similar religious beliefs and cultural artifacts. The point is, they never saw themselves as a single group.
    You cannot know that. That they had nor organizational form to express this feeling is a different matter, but to compare this to a situation hundreds of years after is faulty.
    I am not arguing Christianity didn't play a role in forming an organizational structure, I am saying that we do not know what would have happened without it, you even admitted this once in this thread, yet, you keep arguing as if without Christianity there couldn't have been a union of Germanics, or even Europeans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    And yet prior to that there was no literacy. Germanic people began to enter into a literate civilization and reap all the benefits thereof because of Christianity. This is also what allowed us to retain what knowledge we have about the pagan Germanic world aside from the information from Tacitus.
    Yes, well done Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    What?
    You said the interpretation of the Bible by the common man (or by anyone else than the church?) is a problem of Protestantism, literacy is required for this, thus there might be a connection, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    What do you think the common man was just blindly participating in religious services, entering into monasteries, going on pilgrimages, and fighting in the people's crusade without knowing a thing about what they were devoting their lives to?
    Yes, social pressure can be tremendous, we can see all kinds of baffling actions resulting from this.
    What do you think the common American soldier knows about the real political implications of the Afghanistan war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    The Church taught them. Who are the anti-Christians in question?
    Hm, but nowadays the Church is wrong, isn't it? So why were they right before?
    And the anti-Christians must be those who go against the teachings of the Church then, no?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  7. #1137
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    I think one thing is certain without Christianity The Muslims would have surely taken over Europe. It was only through a unified effort that Muslims were turned back at Tours then latter at Lepanto and finally at the Gates of Vienna.

    All of them required a unified force, one that could not have been raised without Christian Europe.

    So besides building the roads, the Universities, Literacy, the Scientific Method.; Christianity provided unity and some stability in Europe and allowed it to emerge from the dark ages.

    Two great reads: (That will help you understand Christianities role in forming Europe (from non church sources)

    One: Victor David Hansen on the Western way of War

    Two: Cahill how the Irish saved civilization another of his books, the Mysteries of the middle ages.

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    Magnus,

    Without Christianity there would be no Islam. What do you think one of the main sources of inspiration for it was? Whoever came up with the Koran, Muhammed and whatever cronies of his, freely burgled many of Christianity's baubles to create the religion of peace and to this day Jesus is one of the main heroes of Islam.

    The unity of Christian Europe was built upon the bones of classical antiquity and Christian Europe was inferior to Roman Europe in just about every way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    (who ever heard of pagans waging holy wars? Did the Germanic and Norse heathens fight to force others to worship Odin et al. like Charles the Great fought to convert the heathen Old Saxons to Catholicism?)
    The spread of Pagan religions in Europe happened before there were any historians to document it. But i don't think it's a coincidence that everywhere the Indo-Europeans went people just happened to suddenly start worshipping the same gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Without Christianity there would be no Islam.
    That's absurd. Neither Christians nor Muslims believe that. The only place a claim like that would even be spoken is by someone trying to inspire an anti-Muslim crowd to equate Islam and Christianity as one.

    The unity of Christian Europe was built upon the bones of classical antiquity and Christian Europe was inferior to Roman Europe in just about every way.
    Christian Europe was larger, more populous, more technologically advanced, had a far greater width and depth of philosophy and theology to draw on, was richer, healthier, had more advanced agricultural methods, etc.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  10. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    The spread of Pagan religions in Europe happened before there were any historians to document it. But i don't think it's a coincidence that everywhere the Indo-Europeans went people just happened to suddenly start worshipping the same gods...
    Variations of the same gods with many of the same essential divine archetypes: sky father, earth mother, dying/rising savior, etc. Take the Maruts, which some have equated to the Wild Hunt:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruts

    Dumezil mentions them as the article states as well as Campbell in Masks of God I believe (although I'm probably wrong, been a while since I picked it up).

    Hypothetically these local and regional variations of deities all stem from a much older, Proto-Indo-European polytheism that has been reconstructed to some extent.

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