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Thread: The Merits of a Christian Europe

  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    The book itself has not be altered by Germanic thought, but there are plenty of Germanic theologians and mystics that have left their mark on Christian thought.
    You omitted my first question, so again even though, isn't the Bible the highest authority of them all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    This is a problem of Protestantism, not Christianity as a whole, ie using scripture alone for your own interpretation as to what Christianity is.
    The question was more of practical nature, e.g. even among Catholics/Orthodox's if someone reads the Bible, and has learned it is the highest authority on his belief, what prevents him from doing his own interpretation? I am referring to the common men here, coupled with the Semitic tradition of writing ambiguous things which can be interpreted in many ways, contrary to accurate Germanic texts.

    Meaning even while the religious "Elite" may have a sane interpretation, how can it project it onto the common men?

    It is more of a rhetorical question, the answer is the same as to how any system of belief is imposed on others, I am merely pointing this out to prove that Christianity itself needs this, because as you said, otherwise it is a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    This also has as more to do with the general cultural atmosphere than Christianity itself. People who grow up in a leftist world and then try to apply their views to Christianity are at fault, not the religion itself. As mentioned before, do you think the Teutonic Knights or Charles Martel would buy into modern leftism? I highly doubt it.
    I agree, religion follows the Zeitgeist not the other way around, thus Christianity can't prevent any kind of degeneration.
    By the same token we must assume that the Teutonic Knights were not leftist not because of their firm belief of Christianity, but because of their general environment they grew up in.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Cool opinion, but it is little supported by historical fact. If one merely glances at the historical relationship of Marxism and Christianity, we can see that they are diametrically opposed to each other.
    They come out of the same well of poisoned thought. The "hostility" you posted makes it actually quite clear that the Jewish Bolsheviks hated the "peasant bourgeoisie" (who happened to be christians) and not the "christian peasants" (who happened to be bourgeoisie).

    At the end always stands the Judeo-christian empire, a construct that has no use for ethnicities or culture, in fact, it must destroy both in order to justify its existence, to replace both and take their place. Christianity itself is entirely materialistic, hollow and void of any form of spirituality.

    Unfortunately, this does not keep naivelings from believing in it, and filling it with their own, very individualistic view of what spirituality may or may not be. I'm pretty sure that there will be likewise "deep" philosophical treatises about the spaghetti monster religion at one point. It bears no value in itself other than what people put into it. As such, the spaghetti monster and christianity are exchangeable without that it would affect the result: naivelings believing in invented nonsense and making it the base for religious desires and fantasies.




    Der Gott, der Eisen wachsen liess, der wollte keine Knechte.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    At the end always stands the Judeo-christian empire, a construct that has no use for ethnicities or culture, in fact, it must destroy both in order to justify its existence, to replace both and take their place. Christianity itself is entirely materialistic, hollow and void of any form of spirituality.
    Do you have any idea of how ridiculous you sound? For starters, I would refrain from using the term "Judeo-Christian" which has no real historical basis. It only began to be used a little over a century ago--

    The earliest use of the phrase "Judeo-Christian" came in 1899 Lit. Guide 1 Oct. 146/1: "The total abandonment of the Judaeo-Christian 'continuity' theory." This sentence implies that Judaism and Christianity are NOT equivalent though there may be some continuity from one to the other. The next use is in 1910, Encycl. Brit. VI. 494/1: "The Clementine literature throws light upon a very obscure phase of Christian development, that of Judaeo-Christianity." Again, it's "very obscure" and only refers to a brief "phase" of Christian development. It doesn't apply to contemporary practices or beliefs of the two faiths or imply broader grounds for comparison between the religions.
    Secondly, Christianity does not have as its goal a destruction of ethnicities or cultures. If this were so how would the various unique ethnicities and cultures that have been Christian for so long have survived until now?

    Finally, your last sentence could possibly true for many modern forms of Christianity. I agree, there are currents of Christianity that are hollow, materialistic, and devoid of spirituality. Of course to apply this to Christianity as whole, in particular Traditional Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, would be quite foolish.

    However, as others have pointed out, this thread has degenerated into a mere arena for debate over Christianity. The topic question is no longer even relevant, and I think it is clear by now that no one's opinion is going to be swayed by the others. I just hope that through all of this someone may learn something and see things from different perspectives.

  4. #1004
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    How the nationalities survived that long? Because heathenism's virtues of blood lasted until the end of the dark times. Christianity is certainly program of the dark time to further the destruction of germanic people. It has the seeds of it's destruction in it. It took them roughly a thousand year to bring those evil seeds to fruit. That is what we have now.

    With a heathenism, based on blood relations we would still have a strong nation (or nations).

    According to the writings of christians one divides the world between christians and non-christians and that even goes through the families. I guess you know the quote better than me, so I do not look it up. This seed leeds to the destruction of families, one part is following the jewish teaching supposedly given by a Jew with the name Jesus and the other ones stayed heathen.

    Christianity demands that one leaves one's family when they are not heathen.

    On a different scale you find that also in this threat, where Christians demean whatever is heathen and try to bring real germanics (following germanic virtues) under the power of a foreign God with slave-virtues. You have been successful over the last 1000 years but the darktime is over. The time of light and truth starts with a strong beginning.

    You can stick to your religion but I don't think it has a future for germanics. It's slave virtues do not belong to noble people.

    There is so much going on to restore the wisdom of the old heathens, not only among germanics, but also among celts and slavs. The time for dark teachings like Christianity is over for me and many Germanics. We are free and not slaves to any Pope, jew, or God. We do not fear death like Christians, nor do we fear anything. That makes us strong and makes us invincible.

    Heathenism is the true Path for us, not a jewish-meditarreanian heathen mix.

    We are alive and we walk our Path, there is nothing stopping us. Once you find this path, there is no way back.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Your poster child velvet is a good example; her religion is listed as "heathen atheist." The two terms are mutually exclusive.
    For the record, this is not mutually exclusive, since a heathen is:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathen
    1: an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
    2: an uncivilized or irreligious person

    It is actually quite specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Secondly, Christianity does not have as its goal a destruction of ethnicities or cultures. If this were so how would the various unique ethnicities and cultures that have been Christian for so long have survived until now?
    This is no counter argument, since the reasons have already been named by Anlef (i.e. absence of modernity, urbanism, etc.)
    As has been already pointed out, Christianity didn't help Rome at all to prevent their degeneration.

    Here are some nice Bible quotes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah 10:2-3
    Thus says the LORD:
    “Learn not the way of the nations,
    nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
    because the nations are dismayed at them,
    for the customs of the peoples are vanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Galatians 3:27-28
    For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    These quotes certainly ring kind of heavy to the unconditioned believer through some higher authority who could relativize those remarks.
    I am not even sure how this is done to be honest.

    So that Christianity alone and in itself would somehow benefit us in our quest against degeneration has been disproven. What is left is the sole idea of its truth. If this is not given, there is no pragmatic motivation to support it.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    For the record, this is not mutually exclusive, since a heathen is:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathen
    1: an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
    2: an uncivilized or irreligious person

    It is actually quite specific.
    Yes, but then she goes on to describe her "gods" and throughout this thread has supported Germanic paganism, so while the definition may be correct, in her usage she is employing "heathen" as another term for Germanic paganism, which implies the belief in god(s), and therefore is contradictory to claiming to be an atheist---

    Germanic neopaganism, also known as Ásatrú, Odinism, Forn Siðr, Theodism, Wotanism, and Heathenism (Heathenry), is Germanic paganism in the modern world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    As has been already pointed out, Christianity didn't help Rome at all to prevent their degeneration.
    Is the primary goal of Christianity to prevent social degeneration? I don't recall that ever being the guiding purpose of the Christian religion. Was Rome really all that degenerate following the time of Constantine I? I am not so sure it was. Certainly nothing compared to the hedonistic degeneracy we see today.

    Now while the goal of Christianity (or any religion) is related to spiritual matters, it does seem to me that if properly followed Christianity would prevent degenerate behavior. If one follows truly the moral and ascetic disciplines involved with Christianity, containment of the passions and a reduction of selfishness in favor of selflessness are part and parcel of that goal. Degenerate behavior is inherently against the Christian way of life.

    A rough analogy: If anti-bacterial hand wash could prevent one from getting germs and therefore getting sick, and a person never actually used the hand wash and got sick, who is to blame? The hand wash or the person's lack of proper usage the hand wash? This reminds me of a G.K Chesterton quote--

    “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried”
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Here are some nice Bible quotes
    First off, unless one is a Protestant that believes in sola scriptura, quoting random Bible passages and applying one's own interpretation to it is quite meaningless. They must be understood in the larger context of the Christian religion and in line with tradition.

    In any case, the first quote merely is saying to not compromise one's Christian way of life in favor of what the majority of your countrymen are doing. This is especially useful today, where following the customs of the majority would necessitate one becoming a cultural Marxist, anti-racist, politically correct weakling.

    The second quote is not support for racial egalitarianism, it is a soteriological statement. In the context of its use, Paul is stating that Gentiles need not become Jews or obey Jewish law in order to find salvation in Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    So that Christianity alone and in itself would somehow benefit us in our quest against degeneration has been disproven. What is left is the sole idea of its truth. If this is not given, there is no pragmatic motivation to support it.
    I would say that it has not been disproven. If Christian morality and discipline is applied, degeneration would be prevented. Though I agree that the truth of Christianity is the primary reason it should be supported.

    Finally I think we should be reminded of the fact that the group of individuals who are promoting degeneracy and the problems facing the West on a large scale are also actively against traditional Christianity and promote anti-Christian propaganda. Are the two goals not intertwined?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Finally I think we should be reminded of the fact that the group of individuals who are promoting degeneracy and the problems facing the West on a large scale are also actively against traditional Christianity and promote anti-Christian propaganda. Are the two goals not intertwined?
    Depends on which groups you are talking about. Most of the ones promoting degeneracy and the problems facing the West on a large scale are also actively against Heanthenry, because Heathens value family and Folk, have defined roles for men and women, consider "political correctness" to be cowardly and a form of lying, do not support systemic fagotry or infanticide.

    The biggest problem with christianity is that most that call themselves christian don't actually practice it.

    Catholicism is largely to blame for this as well. When converting Heathen lands, rather than "dust off you feet and move on" like Jesus taught when people refused to convert or listen, they decided to convert by conquest, much as islam does. If you look at most of the accusations leveled at chrisitanity, most stem back to past atrocities committed at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearkinder View Post
    Depends on which groups you are talking about. Most of the ones promoting degeneracy and the problems facing the West on a large scale are also actively against Heanthenry, because Heathens value family and Folk, have defined roles for men and women, consider "political correctness" to be cowardly and a form of lying, do not support systemic fagotry or infanticide.
    Seriously I have never seen anti-heathen propaganda in television, movies, the public education system, or anywhere else. On the other hand I've seen countless examples of anti-Christian propaganda throughout my life. Encountering this propaganda is partially what led me to investigate Christianity. Heathenism isn't a threat because their numbers are extremely insignificant. Whereas if we take just one branch of Christianity, Eastern Orthodoxy, there are well over 300 million adherents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearkinder View Post
    Catholicism is largely to blame for this as well. When converting Heathen lands, rather than "dust off you feet and move on" like Jesus taught when people refused to convert or listen, they decided to convert by conquest, much as islam does. If you look at most of the accusations leveled at chrisitanity, most stem back to past atrocities committed at that time.
    Actually if we look at the history of the spread of Christianity, particularly among the Germanic people, it was a mostly non-violent and peaceful process facilitated by missionary activity from Irish, Anglo-Saxon, and other Christians and the fact that after a king would convert, all of his retainers would follow, and then eventually the rest of the people. There are of course exceptions to the rule, but in general Christianity wasn't an atrocious forced mass conversion at sword point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Is the primary goal of Christianity to prevent social degeneration? I don't recall that ever being the guiding purpose of the Christian religion.
    What you call "degeneration" is just the effect of the dying trying to force their ways upon the living and I don’t think it’s far fetched to say that traditionalism is the primary source of this.

    Now while the goal of Christianity (or any religion) is related to spiritual matters, it does seem to me that if properly followed Christianity would prevent degenerate behavior. If one follows truly the moral and ascetic disciplines involved with Christianity, containment of the passions and a reduction of selfishness in favor of selflessness are part and parcel of that goal.
    One of the greatest problems of Christianity; that we would associate values which arise from common sense and rational thought with the fantastic conceptions of otherworldly beings. Then, when we come to our senses and throw off these superstitions, why shouldn't we abandon these values as well? Of course we shouldn't but this is precisely what occurs and this just illustrates the mistake of building a moral code on a foundation that requires men to be content in their ignorance.

  10. #1010
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    Plantagenet, quick question. What ideals do you see that Christianity has that Germanic Heathenry does not? Let us get to the nuts and bolts of the issues between the two religions and see the real differences. And nothing about faith or my god is real. The real nuts and bolts, like do you think Real Heathens accept Gay/Lesbian lifestyles? Those types of ideals. And let us Heathens respond to show you what we actually think or believe in instead of thinking you know.

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