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Thread: Your Thoughts on the Coming War with China

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    Question Your Thoughts on the Coming War with China

    Your Thoughts on the Coming War with China.

    Mounting rivalry between China and the U.S. Is China's Politburo spoiling for a showdown with America? The long-simmering clash between the world's two great powers is coming to a head, with dangerous implications for the international system.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-America.html

    Not just echoes of Wilhelmine arrogance against Britain. Anyone remember Germany's/Japan's insane declaration of war on the 'declining' USA in 1941?

    US vs. China: Watch the Power Game Play Out

    Mark Faber interviewed by Andy Muhkerjee

    You have also said that somewhere in the future there will be a war and during what times commodity prices go up sharply, don't you think the threat of war is exaggerated given that nations have shown considerable restraint in international relations during this recession?

    Mark Faber: I think, the interest of the US and China are further apart than ever before because you have essentially declining superpower the United States and you have a rising superpower China and the current superpower the US will obviously try to contain the rise of China and China will want to have more say in global affairs and you can see their expansion everywhere in Latin America, in the Middle East even in the Indian Ocean, in East Africa and so forth. So that will lead to tensions. We are at war essentially in Iraq and we are at war in Afghanistan, Pakistan and these are wars in my opinion where there is no solution and this is not going to go away. It is going to escalate over time.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/faber/faber34.1.html

    China should build the world's strongest military and move swiftly to topple the United States as the global "champion," a senior Chinese PLA officer says in a new book reflecting swelling nationalist ambitions.

    The call for China to abandon modesty about its global goals and "sprint to become world number one" comes from a People's Liberation Army (PLA) Senior Colonel, Liu Mingfu, who warns that his nation's ascent will alarm Washington, risking war despite Beijing's hopes for a "peaceful rise."

    "China's big goal in the 21st century is to become world number one, the top power," Liu writes in his newly published Chinese-language book, "The China Dream."

    "If China in the 21st century cannot become world number one, cannot become the top power, then inevitably it will become a straggler that is cast aside," writes Liu, a professor at the elite National Defense University, which trains rising officers.

    His 303-page book stands out for its boldness even in a recent chorus of strident Chinese voices demanding a hard shove back against Washington over trade, Tibet, human rights, and arms sales to Taiwan, the self-ruled island Beijing claims as its own.

    "As long as China seeks to rise to become world number one ... then even if China is even more capitalist than the U.S., the U.S. will still be determined to contain it," writes Liu.

    Rivalry between the two powers is a "competition to be the leading country, a conflict over who rises and falls to dominate the world," says Liu. "To save itself, to save the world, China must prepare to become the (world's) helmsman."

    "The China Dream" does not represent government policy, which has been far less strident about the nation's goals.

    Liu's book testifies to the homegrown pressures on China's Communist Party leadership to show the country's fast economic growth is translating into greater sway against the West, still mired in an economic slowdown.

    The next marker of how China's leaders are handling these swelling expectations may come later this week, when the government is likely to announce its defense budget for 2010, after a 14.9 percent rise last year on the one in 2008.

    "This book represents my personal views, but I think it also reflects a tide of thought," Liu told Reuters in an interview. "We need a military rise as well as an economic rise."

    Another PLA officer has said this year's defense budget should send a defiant signal to Washington after the Obama administration went ahead in January with long-known plans to sell $6.4 billion worth of arms to Taiwan.

    "I think one part of 'public opinion' that the leadership pays attention to is elite opinion, and that includes the PLA," said Alan Romberg, an expert on China and Taiwan at the Henry L. Stimson Center, an institute in Washington D.C.

    "I think the authorities are seeking to keep control of the reaction, even as they need to take (it) into account," Romberg said in an emailed response to questions.

    Liu argues that China should use its growing revenues to become the world's biggest military power, so strong the United States "would not dare and would not be able to intervene in military conflict in the Taiwan Strait."

    "If China's goal for military strength is not to pass the United States and Russia, then China is locking itself into being a third-rate military power," he writes. "Turn some money bags into bullet holders."

    China's leaders do not want to jeopardize ties with the United States, a key trade partner and still by far the world's biggest economy and military power.

    Yet Chinese public ire, echoed on the Internet, means policy-makers have to tread more carefully when handling rival domestic and foreign demands, said Jin Canrong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing.

    "Chinese society is changing, and you see that in all the domestic views now on what China should do about the United States," said Jin. "If society demands a stronger stance, ignoring that can bring a certain cost."

    Liu's book was officially published in January, but is only now being sold in Beijing bookstores.

    LIGHTING A FIRE IN AMERICA'S BACKYARD

    In recent months, strains have widened between Beijing and Washington over trade, Internet controls, climate change, U.S. arms sales to Taiwan and President Barack Obama's meeting with Tibet's exiled leader, the Dalai Lama, who China reviles.

    China has so far responded with angry words and a threat to sanction U.S. companies involved in the Taiwan arms sales. But it has not acted on that threat and has allowed a U.S. aircraft carrier to visit Hong Kong.

    Over the weekend, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said he wanted trade friction with the United States to ease. U.S. Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg is due to visit Beijing this week.

    Liu and other PLA officers, however, say they see little chance of avoiding deepening rivalry with the United States, whether peaceful or warlike.

    "I'm very pessimistic about the future," writes another PLA officer, Colonel Dai Xu, in another recently published book that claims China is largely surrounded by hostile or wary countries beholden to the United States.

    "I believe that China cannot escape the calamity of war, and this calamity may come in the not-too-distant future, at most in 10 to 20 years," writes Dai.

    "If the United States can light a fire in China's backyard, we can also light a fire in their backyard," warns Dai.

    Liu said he hoped China and the United States could manage their rivalry through peaceful competition.

    "In his State of the Union speech, Obama said the United States would never accept coming second-place, but if he reads my book he'll know China does not want to always be a runner-up," said Liu in the interview.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6200P620100301

    China has succumbed to hubris. It has mistaken the soft diplomacy of Barack Obama for weakness, mistaken the US credit crisis for decline, and mistaken its own mercantilist bubble for ascendancy. There are echoes of Anglo-German spats before the First World War, when Wilhelmine Berlin so badly misjudged the strategic balance of power and over-played its hand.

    Within a month the US Treasury must rule whether China is a "currency manipulator", triggering sanctions under US law. This has been finessed before, but we are in a new world now with America's U6 unemployment at 16.8pc.

    "It's going to be really hard for them yet again to fudge on the obvious fact that China is manipulating. Without a credible threat, we're not going to get anywhere," said Paul Krugman, this year's Nobel economist.

    China's premier Wen Jiabao is defiant.

    "I don’t think the yuan is undervalued. We oppose countries pointing fingers at each other and even forcing a country to appreciate its currency," he said yesterday. Once again he demanded that the US takes "concrete steps to reassure investors" over the safety of US assets.

    "Some say China has got more arrogant and tough. Some put forward the theory of China's so-called 'triumphalism'. My conscience is untainted despite slanders from outside," he said

    Days earlier the State Council accused America of serial villainy. "In the US, civil and political rights of citizens are severely restricted and violated by the government. Workers' rights are seriously violated," it said.

    "The US, with its strong military power, has pursued hegemony in the world, trampling upon the sovereignty of other countries and trespassing their human rights," it said.

    "At a time when the world is suffering a serious human rights disaster caused by the US subprime crisis-induced global financial crisis, the US government revels in accusing other countries." And so forth.

    Is the Politiburo smoking weed?

    I let others discuss the rights and wrongs of this, itself a response to the US report card on China. Clearly, Beijing is in denial about is own part in the global imbalances behind the credit crisis, specifically by running structural trade surpluses, and driving down long rates through dollar and euro bond purchases. No doubt the West has made a hash of things, but the Chinese view of events is twisted to the point of delusional.

    What interests me is Beijing's willingness to up the ante. It has vowed sanctions against any US firm that takes part in a $6.4bn weapons contract for Taiwan, a threat to ban Boeing from China and a new level of escalation in the Taiwan dispute.

    In Copenhagen, Wen Jiabao sent an underling to negotiate with Mr Obama in what was intended to be - and taken to be - a humiliation. The US President put his foot down, saying: "I don't want to mess around with this anymore." That sums up White House feelings towards China today.

    We have talked ourselves into believing that China is already a hyper-power. It may become one: it is not one yet. China is ringed by states - Japan, Korea, Vietnam, India - that are American allies when push comes to shove. It faces a prickly Russia on its 4,000km border, where Chinese migrants are itching for Lebensraum across the Amur. Emerging Asia, Brazil, Egypt and Europe are all irked by China's yuan-rigged export dumping.

    Michael Pettis from Beijing University argues that China's reserves of $2.4 trillion - arguably $3 trillion - are a sign of weakness, not strength. Only twice before in modern history has a country amassed such a stash equal to 5pc-6pc of global GDP: the US in the 1920s, and Japan in the 1980s. Each time preceeded depression.

    The reserves cannot be used internally to support China's economy. They are dead weight, beyond any level needed for macro-credibility. Indeed, they are the ultimate indictment of China's dysfunctional strategy, which is to buy $30bn to $40bn of foreign bonds every month to hold down the yuan, refusing to let the economy adjust to trade realities. The result is over-investment in plant, flooding the world with goods at wafer-thin export margins. China's over-capacity in steel is now greater than Europe's output.

    This is catching up with China, in any case. Professor Victor Shuh from Northerwestern University warns that the 8,000 financing vehicles used by China's local governments to stretch credit limits have built up debts and commitments of $3.5 trillion, mostly linked to infrastructure. He says the banks may require a bail-out nearing half a trillion dollars.

    As America's creditor - owner of some $1.4 trillion of US Treasuries, agency bonds, and US instruments - China can exert leverage. But this is not what it seems. If the Politburo deploys its illusiory power, Washington can pull the plug on China's export economy instantly by shutting markets. Who holds whom to ransom?

    Any attempt to retaliate by triggering a US bond crisis would rebound against China, and could be stopped - in extremis - by capital controls. Roosevelt changed the rules in 1933. Such things happen. The China-US relationship is no doubt symbiotic, but a clash would not be "mutual assured destruction", as often claimed. Washington would win.

    Contrary to myth, the slide to protectionism after the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act did not cause the Depression. Trade contracted more slowly in the 1930s than this time. The Smoot-Hawley lesson is that tariffs have asymmetrical effects. They devastate surplus countries: then America. Deficit Britain did well by retreating into Imperial Preference.

    Barack Obama has never exalted free trade. This orthodoxy is, in any case, under threat in the West. His top economic adviser Larry Summers let drop in Davos that free-trade arguments no longer hold when dealing with "mercantilist" powers. Adam Smith recognized this too, despite efforts by free-trade ultras to appropriate him for their cause.

    China's trasformation has been remarkable since Deng Xiaoping unleashed capitalism, but as ex-diplomat George Walden writes in China: a Wolf in the World? you cannot feel at ease with a regime that still covers up Mao's murderous nihilism. He reminds us too that China has never forgiven the humilations inflicted by the West when the two civilizations collided in the 19th Century, and intends to exact revenge. Handle with care.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-America.html

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    I just expect that China do the right job,that the Germans failed to do.

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    I'm reminded of this from a few years ago:

    Could China Become Target for US Weapons of Mass Destruction?
    Pacific News Service, Commentary, Franz Schurmann, Posted: Aug 19, 2005

    Editor's Note: The U.S.-China relationship may experience an upswing when Chinese President Hu Jintao visits President Bush this fall. But by 2025, argues veteran Sinologist Franz Schurmann, it could deteriorate to dangerous levels.

    SAN FRANCISCO--Chinese leader Hu Jintao might visit President Bush at Crawford Ranch this fall but it's not inconceivable that, in coming years, America could consider using "Weapons of Mass Destruction"(WMD) against China. WMD include nuclear weapons.

    China has made great strides in power and wealth both internally and, recently, externally. Since dual victories in Europe and East Asia in 1945, America has considered itself in part the successor to the British Empire. And, like the latter, it fears any rival. China has become such a rival.

    During the Cold War (1948-1991) the Soviet Union (now Russia) and China had comparable power. But though Russia has wealth, especially fossil fuels, it's now trivial compared to China's wealth. However, China and Russia recently launched their most ambitious joint military exercises ever to show their deepening cooperation.

    In 1958, during the Quemoy Crisis, when China shelled the small islands held by Taiwan, America seriously considered using a WMD option on Chinese targets, military and civilian. If used, America would have pushed the world to the brink of nuclear war.

    Six years later in the American election year of 1964, the Republican candidate for Vice President, General Curtis LeMay, kept saying in his campaign speeches that "nuclear weapons are just another weapon." In World War II he was known for his "frying the cities," which killed thousands of civilians.

    In October 1964, the United States came close to bombing the Chinese experimental atomic device at the nuclear Lop-Nor facility in Guangsu Province. While the Pentagon accepted cooperation with the Soviet military to reduce the chances of nuclear war between the two superpowers, it had only perfunctory contacts with its Chinese counterparts. Rather, a Pentagon report to Congress this year on Chinese military power claimed that China was now engaged in a "truly alarming" military modernization.

    Even before World War I, Kaiser Wilhelm II coined the term "Yellow peril" and many Europeans and Americans agreed. So, it seems, does the Pentagon.

    The Western image of China was captured by Suzanne Labin when in 1960 she published "The Ant Hill: The Human Condition in Communist China." The photographs of hordes of people building big dams with their own hands, coupled with the "ant hill" in the title made it clear Labin saw the Chinese more as human robots than heroes.

    Why would America want to nuke China? Twenty years from now, America could be in serious economic decline and feel threatened by China's rise. Or, the growth of unchecked power in the Pentagon could make that body a kind of "state within a state."

    However, China will likely survive even if America decides to nuke it. Over the centuries China has been the one of the few countries in history that has survived huge death tolls to become even stronger than before. In the case of contemporary China, the recovery time is getting shorter and shorter.

    In 1960, this Sinologist was in Moscow along with fellow American and European Sinologists. At a time when travel between China and America was forbidden, that conference was to be a rare opportunity for American, Soviet and Chinese scholars to get together.

    But the Chinese scholars did not come. Instead, the world media ran headlines like "Chinese and Soviet Communist parties break relations." Some years hence it became clear what made Nikita Khrushchev and Mao Zedong turn away from comradeship into fierce enmity. In 1957, Khrushchev had agreed to help the Chinese physicists and engineers build a nuclear bomb. But in 1959, when Khrushchev visited America, President Eisenhower persuaded the Soviet leader to cancel the 1957 agreement. As a result the two Communist leaders exchanged vilifications that morphed into a mini war in 1969.

    Mao Zedong, who had the highest admiration for Joseph Stalin, despised Khrushchev as a liar. When Mao went to Moscow in 1957 (his second trip to Moscow, otherwise he never went abroad), he had grand visions of China's, the Soviet Union's and Marxism's glorious futures all over the world. Mao thought he was an avatar of an emperor going back to the legendary Xia dynasty 2,500 B.C.

    In 1958, Mao's visions blossomed. He called his grand vision for China the "Great Leap Forward." But then in 1959, there were signs that the great leap was showing slowdowns. In September 1959, Khrushchev went to the USA and betrayed Mao Zedong. In 1960, famine ravaged rural China. Corpses from China kept washing up in the Portugese colony of Macao, near Hong Kong, during 1959 and 1960. Various sources estimate 50 million died.

    In 1961, Mao knew that the only way to abate the famine was to re-instate the traditional rural markets with renewed and credible money instead of the useless paper the Chinese farmers got from the Great Leap Forward. The Chinese farmer had been used to credible currencies from 4,000 years past, when their currency was cowrie shells.

    Since 1961, China's potato harvest area increased from 1.3 million hectares in 1961 to 2.4 million hectares in 1981. In 1972, Mao Zedong recalled Deng Xiaoping, who had been in rural exile as a bad guy in Mao's "cultural revolution." Deng cleaned farmers' latrines for six years. Following Mao's death in 1976, he took Mao's position in 1978. And he based his rural successes on Mao's quick turnabout when he realized his visions were nothing more than dreams.

    That kind of resilience and leadership should give the Pentagon think-tanks some pause before launching Coalition and American forces into nuclear action.

    Schurmann is emeritus professor of history and sociology at U.C. Berkeley and author of numerous books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwig View Post
    I just expect that China do the right job,that the Germans failed to do.
    Hm...Please do explain this one.

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    China at the moment is unable to conquer Taiwan. The US is the primary market for all the junk coming out of Chinese factories, contributing to the Chinese economic 'miracle'. A war with the US would inevitably give rise to a remilitarized Japan. The US could cut off the flow of oil & other raw materials to China. The US would naturally default on its massive debt to China in casde of war. The Chinese have much to lose in a confrontation with the US. But it would be a good thing for the US, perhaps forcing us to reindustrialize.

    I think it would be best for everyone if China would retreat to a Maoist isolationalist state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronan View Post
    Hm...Please do explain this one.
    Don't get me wrong,I'm not a PC guy.America is a disgrace.It is much more part of the problem than the solution of anything.In the 20's when the marxists,more specifically Trotsky, wanted to destroy the remnants of the European civilization they talked about "clear the way for the Americanization of Europe".A Marxist(!!!) said that.Cultural decadence and American values are synonimous.Nowadays the situation is much worse,as the United States is clearly waging wars to prevent any other country to advance and rival the US.So it is obvious that the weakening of America (even by the hands of an Asian country) will give chance that other civilizations become stronger (Europe?).

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    Mad Leading CCP official argues for exterminating U.S. population.

    Leading CCP official argues for exterminating U.S. population

    On September 1, 2004 in an article entitled “The Real Axis of Evil” I wrote: ”China has emerged as a corporate version of Nazi Germany.” Now speeches purportedly by the former Defence Minister and Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission, Chi Haotian, have come to my notice. The text of one speech is reproduced below. It confirms the worst fears about the Beijing regime. But is the speech authentic?

    Chi Haotian, Minster of Defense and vice-chairman of China’s Central Military Commission:

    The fact is, our “development” refers to the great revitalization of the Chinese nation, which, of course, is not limited to the land we have now but also includes the whole world...

    Based on an historical analysis, he pointed out that the center of world civilization is shifting. It shifted from the East to Western Europe and later to the United States; now it is shifting back to the East.

    Therefore, if we refer to the 19th Century as the British Century, and the 20th century as the American Century, then the 21st Century will be the Chinese Century. To understand conscientiously this historical law and to be prepared to greet the advent of the Chinese Century is the historical mission of our Party...Our Chinese people are wiser than the Germans because, fundamentally, our race is superior to theirs. As a result, we have a longer history, more people, and larger land area...

    The first issue is living space. This is the biggest focus of the revitalization of the Chinese race...

    Anybody who has been to Western countries knows that their living space is much better than ours...

    What is our key, correct orientation? It is to solve the issue of America...

    Would the United States allow us to go out to gain new living space? First, if the United States is firm in blocking us, it is hard for us to do anything significant to Taiwan and some other countries! Second, even if we could snatch some land from Taiwan, Vietnam, India, or even Japan, how much more living space can we get? Very trivial! Only countries like the United States, Canada and Australia have the vast land to serve our need for mass colonization. Therefore, solving the “issue of America” is the key to solving all other issues. First, this makes it possible for us to have many people migrate there and even establish another China under the same leadership of the CCP.

    America was originally discovered by the ancestors of the yellow race, but Columbus gave credit to the white race. We the descendents of the Chinese nation are entitled to the possession of the land! It is said that the residents of the yellow race have a very low social status in United States. We need to liberate them. Second, after solving the “issue of America,” the western countries in Europe would bow to us, not to mention to Taiwan, Japan and other small countries. Therefore, solving the “issue of America” is the mission assigned to CCP members by history...

    It is historical destiny that China and United States will come into unavoidable confrontation on a narrow path and fight each other! ...

    In the long run, the relationship of China and the United States is one of a life-and-death struggle...

    In history, when a country defeated another country or occupied another country, it could not kill all the people in the conquered land, because back then you could not kill people effectively with sabers or long spears, or even with rifles or machine guns. Therefore, it was impossible to gain a stretch of land without keeping the people on that land. However, if we conquered America in this fashion, we would not be able to make many people migrate there.

    Only by using special means to “clean up” America will we be able to lead the Chinese people there. This is the only choice left for us. This is not a matter of whether we are willing to do it or not...

    From a humanitarian perspective, we should issue a warning to the American people and persuade them to leave America and leave the land they have lived in to the Chinese people...

    We must prepare ourselves for two scenarios. If our biological weapons succeed in the surprise attack [on the United States], the Chinese people will be able to keep their losses at a minimum in the fight against the United States. If, however, the attack fails and triggers a nuclear retaliation from the United States, China would perhaps suffer a catastrophe in which more than half of its population would perish...

    In the future, the two rivals, China and the United States, will eventually meet each other in a narrow road, and our leniency to the Americans will mean cruelty toward the Chinese people...

    It is indeed brutal to kill one or two hundred million Americans. But that is the only path that will secure a Chinese century, a century in which the CCP leads the world. We, as revolutionary humanitarians, do not want deaths. But if history confronts us with a choice between deaths of Chinese and those of Americans, we’d have to pick the latter, as, for us, it is more important to safeguard the lives of the Chinese people and the life of our Party. That is because, after all, we are Chinese and members of the CCP.

    http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-8-8/31055.html

    Chi Haotian’s speeches were posted on Chinese language websites, www.peacehall.com on February 15, 2005 and on www.boxun.com on April 23, 2005. The contents of the speeches have not been contradicted by official sources in China. The background of the posted speeches remains a mystery. The titles of the two speeches are “War is approaching us” and “War is not far from us and is the Midwife of the Chinese Century.” An article by San Renxing in the Falun Gong owned Epoch Times of August 8, 2005 entitled “The CCP’s Last-ditch Gamble: Biological and Nuclear War” has analyzed the speeches to judge authenticity.

    Renxing, a staffer, wrote: “I will focus on verifying the authenticity of the speech… Looking at the speech in isolation, the words and logic both reflect deep understanding of the “Party culture” represented by Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao. Also mixed in are the fascist teachings of He Xin, a new favorite of the CCP’s… For example, the speech cited Mao’s ideas of leading the allies to victory, “When they benefit from alliance with you, they will support you,” to defend the “Three Represents.” proposed by Jiang Zemin. This is a very faithful interpretation… The speech also says, “The population, even if more than half dies, can be reproduced. But if the Party falls, everything is gone, and forever gone!” This is almost identical to Mao’s theory on nuclear war, in which he suggested killing half of the Chinese people and leaving the other 300 million to build communism…Some people might think that we can’t establish the authenticity of the speech just because Mao said something similar. Coincidently, at this critical moment, Professor (General) Zhu Chenghu of the National Defense University jumped out and announced to the world very loudly that if the Untied States got involved in a war between Taiwan and Mainland China, China would be the first to use nuclear weapons and wipe out hundreds of cities in the United States, even at the cost of losing every city east of Xi’An. In an unpublished speech by Professor Zhu, he also revealed that the CCP will store enough nuclear weapons to destroy half of the human race… Despite most people’s unrealistic fantasies about the CCP, he showed what the CCP is really about and authenticated Chi Haotian’s speech… A low-ranking general would not say such arrogant things without the implicit approval of the CCP’s “board of directors”… It’s not that the United States doesn’t know who is the true source of disasters in this world and who the undisputed axis of evil is. Who is the forerunner and consistent sponsor of terrorism? Who is spreading nuclear weapons to North Korea, Iran, and Libya through Pakistan? Who is instigating Kim Jong-Il, Osama Bin Laden…?”

    http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2...-emerging.html
    http://home.flash.net/~evt/china.htm
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t277920/

    Excerpt from George Washington's angelic vision at Valley Forge in 1777, of World War III and a military invasion of the USA, as related by: Wesley Bradshaw

    "...And again I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' At this, the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia, and Africa. Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene. From each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were soon joined into one. And throughout this mass, there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America, which country was enveloped in the volume of cloud. And I dimly saw these vast armies devastate the whole country, and burn the villages, towns and cities that I beheld springing up.

    "As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat., I again heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' When the voice had ceased, the dark shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth, and blew a long and fearful blast.

    "Instantly a light as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel upon whose head still shone the word 'Union,' and who bore our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens attended by legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were well nigh overcome, but who immediately taking courage again closed up their broken ranks and renewed the battle. Again, amid the fearful noise of the conflict, I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.'

    "As the voice ceased, the shadowy angel for the last time dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark cloud rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious.

    "Then once more I beheld the villages, towns and cities, springing up where I had seen them before, while the bright angel, plating the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with a loud voice: 'While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last.' And taking from his brow the crown on which was blazoned the word 'Union,' he placed it upon the Standard, while the people, kneeling down, said 'Amen.'

    http://home.flash.net/~evt/china.htm
    Last edited by SpearBrave; Friday, July 30th, 2010 at 01:55 AM. Reason: Fixed mis-use of colored text

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    Do any of you really think China could survive, let alone, handle, a war like that? Millions of lives would be lost if China even attempted to handle a war like that. Besides, why militarily beat an opponent to death when you can do it economically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwig View Post
    Don't get me wrong,I'm not a PC guy.America is a disgrace.It is much more part of the problem than the solution of anything.In the 20's when the marxists,more specifically Trotsky, wanted to destroy the remnants of the European civilization they talked about "clear the way for the Americanization of Europe".A Marxist(!!!) said that.Cultural decadence and American values are synonimous.Nowadays the situation is much worse,as the United States is clearly waging wars to prevent any other country to advance and rival the US.So it is obvious that the weakening of America (even by the hands of an Asian country) will give chance that other civilizations become stronger (Europe?).
    Wishing for a strong China to combat a strong America strikes me as something akin to treating a cancer patient with machine gun therapy. Moreover, the EU is building itself up into a rival bloc with little or no opposition from the US. This myth that America moves heaven and earth to keep everyone down is little different than black conspiracy theories about 'the man'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ædiruc View Post
    Do any of you really think China could survive, let alone, handle, a war like that? Millions of lives would be lost if China even attempted to handle a war like that. Besides, while militarily beat an opponent to death when you can do it economically?
    The probable flashpoint is Taiwan, and the question is how bad China wants it. Increasingly, elements within the PLA see war with the US as inevitable.

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