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Thread: Post Perfect Atlantid Exemplars

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    Post Perfect Atlantid Exemplars

    Guillaume Le Huche:




    Kerry Beyer:




    James Caviezel:




    And why isn't there an Atlantid section? There is a bloody Uralid section inside the Europoid category, but no Atlantid section...

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    Even though I defended the term and consider myself being one, I don't think it is a major form on its own, but just the transition between Nordid and Mediterranid.

    Neither would I make up Norid, Carpathid, Kaukasid, Balto-Alpinid etc. as own sections, for similar reasons, though one can recognise the phentype and identify (sub-) populations with a strong tendency towards it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Even though I defended the term and consider myself being one, I don't think it is a major form on its own, but just the transition between Nordid and Mediterranid.

    Neither would I make up Norid, Carpathid, Kaukasid, Balto-Alpinid etc. as own sections, for similar reasons, though one can recognise the phentype and identify (sub-) populations with a strong tendency towards it.
    Then why is there a Baltoid and Alpinid section outside the Cromagnoid category?

    Baltid is just Alpinid mixed with Samid, Alpinid is also the result of mixture and just Cromagnoids in reduced form, but cromagnoid nonetheless.

    I understand that there are Nordid, Cromagnoid, Taurid and Mediterranid category, but if Alpinid and Baltid are considered to be different enough from cromagnoid to get their own sections, how come not Atlantid?

    I think they are plenty different enough from both Mediterranid and Nordid to be considered a type of their own, just like Alpinid and Baltid are considered different enough from cromagnoids to get a their own separate sections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenhygieniker View Post
    Then why is there a Baltoid and Alpinid section outside the Cromagnoid category?
    Because that are types on their own, with their own specific characteristics, subtypes, variants and transitional forms, but they are a specialisation on their own.

    Neither would the Nordid be ever "just Mediterranid", even if it would be a complete Mediterranid derivative, since some different aspects being added and the adaptation-specialisation is different.

    Baltid is just Alpinid mixed with Samid, Alpinid is also the result of mixture and just Cromagnoids in reduced form, but cromagnoid nonetheless.
    Osteuropid-Baltids are the result of a development on its own:

    I understand that there are Nordid, Cromagnoid, Taurid and Mediterranid category, but if Alpinid and Baltid are considered to be different enough from cromagnoid to get their own sections, how come not Atlantid?
    Atlantid is phenotypically a dark Nordid or Nordid influenced Atlantomediterranid-like variant.

    What you probably mean, since your examples often have light eyes, is the Nordatlantid subtype, which is by some authors considered Nordid (me too), by others Mediterranid or just transitional too.

    I think they are plenty different enough from both Mediterranid and Nordid to be considered a type of their own, just like Alpinid and Baltid are considered different enough from cromagnoids to get a their own separate sections
    The differences between Dalofaelid and Osteuropid/Baltid or Alpinid are in various respects bigger than those between Nordid and Mediterranid, so that's not really any sort of comparison.

    They are just a completely different adaptation-specialisation in certain respects.

    Here something I wrote on another forum about Alpinids:
    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    1) Where do they come from?
    They are primarily based on older variants, especially from the Cromagnoid spectrum, which changed over time, especially in the unfavourable gatherer and tiller communities. Dependent grain eaters which were rather sedentary became more often Alpinised, it's basically an adaptation to a socially rather dubdominant, yet socially adaptable and physically saving variant, which matures earlier, is more resistant against certain diseases and unergonomic work, uses and stores energy more efficiently, can stand malnutrition better etc.

    So basically it is a trade off between efficiency vs. effectiveness, in tillers efficiency became, especially under the unfavourable conditions of the Medieval Age, much more important than effectiveness, with higher individual and group selection being drastically reduced in comparison to the conditions before, in tribal societies and a more favourable climate and life style for the majority.

    One basic development could be reconstructed for the West along these lines:

    Palaeatlantid -> Berid -> (basic West-) Alpinid.

    These new Alpinid forms dripped into new territories by genflow, where, if the conditions were similar - dependent farmers - spread the traits, leading to the process of Alpinisation.

    This was discontinued various times, especially when new tribal groups came into already sedentary-dependent farmer areas, but started usually soon afterwards again, since the Alpinid element always survived those movements and could flourish again under such stable but rather unfavourable conditions.

    This is Alpinisation as a trend, a process, and thats how you have to see it, because they didn't come in any sort of huge immigration, they popped up where conditions favoured specific traits, saving variants among farmers primarily.

    With all intermediate forms (Cromagno-Alpinoid) being still present in many areas, but the classical type is a mostly Cromagnoid derivative, a brachycephalised-reduced-infantilised variant.

    That's why you see at least AlpinOID (similar) variants in so many areas, basically in almost all Europid territories and where they stopped, the closely related Osteuropid-Baltid spectrum and Baltisation jumps in as a rule of thumb (less UV light, more Northern Cromagnoid derivatives, more cold adapted and partly Mongoloid influences).

    2) What ancient/medieval ethnicities are they associated with?
    Well, we don't know their ethnicities, because they had none which survived. They came with other, more progressive-dominant people quite often, like the Bell Beaker Dinaroids (significant Alpinoid minority, most higher level males - by grave goods - were in the early phase Dianroid) or just lived in part- or fully Alpinised villages in the areas which fitted what I described.

    The ethnicities we know of all came with other people, which conquered the part- or fully Alpinised areas.

    If you associate them with Celts f.e., you just describe Celts in areas and under conditions in which this older population element became more dominant. So they were not the original Celts, nor the real Celts, they were just Celticised or Romanised people, mostly from older elements or newly developed ones, which just survived or even flourished, often under the protective shields of breeds which were more specialised on effectiveness - progressive-dominant variants (= Nordid, Mediterranid, Cromagnid, Dinarid, Iranid, etc.).

    3) Why are there so many Alpinids in Central Europe, when(according to Coon) that area was mostly Nordid right up til the Fall of the Roman Empire?
    Because they could only spread peacefully, under the protection of rules and laws, kept up by more dominant groups in their own areas. Alpinisation was the trend of the slow but steady Alpinisation of the hungry, suppressed, one sided working and living, constantly sick & suffering farmers, among which people with Alpinoid traits seem to have a higher reproductive rate.

    You can see that with those going to the cities, those becoming priests or mercenaries, insurgents or the like, those which had stronger progressive-dominant tendencies, even if they survived the hard childhood in the villages, were less likely to have more children, in the end and this dysgenic trends worked on the common people in particular many generations - with the great emigration waves and modern mass wars afterwards...

    In the end, the Alpinid farmer which was just staying at home and underwent everything which came, without doing or changing too much, got more children which survived.

    As I said, before the Medieval Times, Alpinisation was at various times stopped or even reverted, especially when higher individual and group selection became more active again, when we see times of movements, herder-farmer warriors, wars, clan organisation and the like (f.e. Germanic and early Slavic expansion). Its similar to gracilisation vs. degracilisation in a certain way.

    Aurignacoids/leptodolichomorphic variants, like Nordid, Mediterranid, Iranid, Indid etc. can get more robust or gracile, taller or smaller, along a certain line, they usually don't change their proportions significantly. A Gracilmediterranid is just like a smaller-gracile Nordid version and vice versa. Only slight Neotenic-infantile tendencies can be observed, yet the basic proportions don't change.

    Cromagnoids and their derivatives on the other hand come primarily in two stable and harmonised variants: Tall, robust, mature or infantilised-reduced - then usually brachycephalised too, shorter proportions etc. They change more completely, because a typical reduced Baltid is not just a smaller-gracile version of the Dalofaelid, but something more different by all standards, the whole development, maturation process in typically, fully Alpinised or Baltised variants is partially retarded, they have a much more infantile character and different proportions.

    Thats also a cheap cold adaptation, because a smaller surface and bigger volume means a lower loss of heat and energy, while approaching the shape of a ball. Same with the lengths and relative breadth of the extremities.

    The Aurignacoids don't change that way, they respond physiologically and especially by size. So if they have to survive in the cold, they have to be quite dominant+effective, to gain all the energy and ressources they need for getting the necessary size (Nordid and Atlantomediterranid f.e.), they are an active adaptation, like the basic Cromagnids are too, just with somewhat less energy and different traits in detail - Cromagnids are better cold adapted than Aurignacoids generally, but need more energy to keep up their huge and "expensive" body, which means cold + effectiveness needs to be selected. Take one away and Aurignacoids or Cromagnoid derivatives get a better chance, like after the time of the Ice Age...

    Alpinid and Baltid specialisation means efficiency, survival with lower risks and effectiveness, but by being able to withstand the bad times to come - more by "sitting it out" rather than "fighting it out" so to say...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    What you probably mean, since your examples often have light eyes, is the Nordatlantid subtype, which is by some authors considered Nordid (me too), by others Mediterranid or just transitional too.
    No I did not post these exemplars specifically for their blue eyes or anything, it just so happened that the most perfekt Atlantid exemplars I could find had blue eyes. I could have gone and posted Famke Janssen who has brown eyes, but she is hardly a perfekt Atlantid exemplar because of additional cromagnoid components.

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    James Bond


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    Here some at least pred. Atlantid/Nordomediterranid phenotypes.



    Good comparison of an Atlantid vs. Nordid phenotype.

    British from Bristol:


    Mary Louise Parker (slight Cromagnid):


    José Manuel Reina (187 cm) pred. Atlantid/Atlantomediterranid:


    Atlantid/Atlantomediterranid from Northern Spain:


    Atlantid/Nordatlantid from Northern Spain:


    Atlantid/Nordatlantid, Sean Young:


    Atlantid/Nordatlantid, with Dalofaelid/Cromagnid influences, Stefanie Kloß:


    Atlantid with certain Alpinoid influences, Lena Meyer-Landrut:


    Pred. Nordatlantid, Pierce Brosnan:



    Atlantomediterranid for comparison, from Northern Spain:


    Atlantomediterranid from Northern Spain:


    Pred. Gracilmediterranid, Alyssa Milano:
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    Magna Europa est patria nostra
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    Jonathan Rhys Meyers:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenhygieniker View Post
    Jonathan Rhys Meyers:

    I think he is rather some sort of Nordid/Atlantid with Dalofaelid/Cromagnid influences.

    That's not really evident in this picture, but in others like here in my opinion:


    Still he goes overall in the "right direction".
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    Laura Rudas, left-wing Austrian politician?

    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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