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Thread: Thelema and LaVeyan Satanism: Your Opinion

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
    Hello.

    I remember that some 7, 8 years ago, before I got curious about Germanic myths and legends, I used to be or at least claim to be a LaVeyan Satanist... nowadays I claim to be mostly Thelemic, however still most of my knowledge on magic comes from LaVey, who I have read the works some 2 to 4 times now...

    Anyway I would like to ask what is the opinion about Thelema and LaVeyan Satanism in general, is it dangerous or does it can be healthy to overall Germanic society and revivalism?
    Satanism???

    Sorry, but I am a germanic. I don't do yawhe or satan..

  2. #22
    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephSmith View Post
    Hearsay and speculation based on the content of their website and the nature of their philosophy and rhetoric.
    I'm sorry that I haven't fully researched the ins-and-outs of the Church of Satan but I assumed that these were fairly basic comments. That they were Anarchists or at least, libertarians. I apologise for not verifying the stuff about orgies first but that is the first connotation people have of Satanism.
    Anarchists, no. Libertarians, a few.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

  3. #23
    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eppillus View Post
    I know nothing of Thelema Satanism but I personally think LaVeyan satanism is bs. It's just another Crowleyist faith, there is no truth higher than the self. Oprah's "Church of what's happening now" is fundamentally the same thing.

    However this answering only to yourself can be dangerous, because we as humans are easily mad with power, also there's extreme cases of this philosophy being bad for you, like the recent psychopath traitor in Norway, this of course being a specifically horrible instance.

    The underlying meaning is much more important than the banner.
    There's no such thing as Thelema Satanism. Thelema, or more accurately The Law of Thelema, was the cornerstone of Aleister Crowley's magical curriculum.

    Neither Crowley nor any of his organizations/Lodges have any connection to the CoS.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

  4. #24
    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Skannon View Post
    Satanism???

    Sorry, but I am a germanic. I don't do yawhe or satan..
    Too bad. Then you don't get to hear about the Ragnarok Ritual.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

  5. #25
    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlorisvanHolland View Post
    LaVey was a Jew, and many of the Church of Satan adherents are Jewish (Nicholas Schreck for example). I find Satanism in its imagery and views very undermining, just like Marx, Freud and the Frankfurt School. Its extreme individualism and egoism comes from the Jewess Ayn Rand. There is no place for the forefathers, for family and folk.
    The images of cruelty, darkness, ugliness, sickness and decay that Satanism espouses are revolting: images of the Untermensch.
    I follow the Aryan ideal of light, order, justice, health and beauty, as for example wonderfully expressed in the NS propaganda posters.
    The CoS seems to like NS imagery, but that is only because the Jews have made the NS into an image of pure evil. And in espousing NS symbols, the CoS links NS to pure evil even more! And therefore the CoS supports the Jewish war on the Aryans!!!

    Nicholas Schrek is not a CoS adherent.

    Don't know what images you're referring to. Maybe you're confusing the CoS with something you saw somewhere else?

    The CoS is apolitical. Its members are free to choose any political path they choose, so long as it empowers them.

    As for the CoS' glorification of individualism, that's the entire purpose of all avowed LHP practices. To elevate the individual consciousness to ever increasing levels clarity and understanding.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    There's no such thing as Thelema Satanism. Thelema, or more accurately The Law of Thelema, was the cornerstone of Aleister Crowley's magical curriculum.

    Neither Crowley nor any of his organizations/Lodges have any connection to the CoS.
    The very basis of the CoS faith is Crowleyist doctrine. "There is no truth higher than the self" is the fundamental ideal of CoS and Crowleyist faiths. Aleister Crowley spread the idea as a basis for religion.

    Saying they're not related is like saying Christianity and Judaism aren't related.

    From Antons Wiki:
    In 1951 LaVey sought out a new unintentional hypocrisy branch of the 'Order of Thelema' (i.e. Ordo Templi Orientis) in Berkeley. He was reportedly disappointed to find them so mystically-minded. A few years earlier he had ordered most of Aleister Crowley's books from his American follower John Whiteside Parsons. When John Symond's biography of Crowley, The Great Beast came out in 1952, LaVey concluded that the Thelemites founder was a druggy poseur whose greatest achievements were as a poet and a mountain-climber.

    He claims to despise him, then builds a faith around his fundamental teachings, rooting out what he considered "Hypocrisy"

    Note I don't think either is correct or good, or better than the other, regardless of the aesthetics differing the two.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eppillus View Post
    The very basis of the CoS faith is Crowleyist doctrine. "There is no truth higher than the self" is the fundamental ideal of CoS and Crowleyist faiths. Aleister Crowley spread the idea as a basis for religion.
    Crowley's mantra was,

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

    Love is the Law. Love under will."

    The Law of Thelema has never been recognized by the CoS.

    Furthermore, Crowley's spiritual orientation was one of the RHP, not the LHP, as it is with the CoS.

    Saying they're not related is like saying Christianity and Judaism aren't related.
    Sorry, but as I have just explained, they are not related.

    From Antons Wiki:
    In 1951 LaVey sought out a new unintentional hypocrisy branch of the 'Order of Thelema' (i.e. Ordo Templi Orientis) in Berkeley. He was reportedly disappointed to find them so mystically-minded. A few years earlier he had ordered most of Aleister Crowley's books from his American follower John Whiteside Parsons. When John Symond's biography of Crowley, The Great Beast came out in 1952, LaVey concluded that the Thelemites founder was a druggy poseur whose greatest achievements were as a poet and a mountain-climber.

    He claims to despise him, then builds a faith around his fundamental teachings, rooting out what he considered "Hypocrisy"
    Sorry, but LaVey did not build the CoS upon Crowley's teachings, nor did he recognize the Law of Thelema. Satanists are not Thelemites.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

  8. #28
    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    The Dark Occult, Satanism & More

    Lengthy discussion on Satanism. Since there are many in this organization, it is useful to have a little understanding of their ideology.
    Mark Passio and Popeye go deep down the rabbit hole to expose Satanism, the Dark Occult and how it connects to the Secret Societies that run our world today.
    http://www.federaljack.com/?p=138591

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    Crowley's mantra was,

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

    Love is the Law. Love under will
    ."

    The Law of Thelema has never been recognized by the CoS.

    ...LaVey did not build the CoS upon Crowley's teachings, nor did he recognize the Law of Thelema. Satanists are not Thelemites.
    Exactly.

    The Church of Satan, either intentionally or not, misused and misrepresented Crowleys mantra - which reveals they didn't understand it at all. To the CoS it means: "Do whatever you want or whatever urge you feel arise", which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what Crowley was saying at all.

  10. #30
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    I was involved with Satanism when I was younger. I never joined the CoS but had all of their books and belonged to quite a few online Satanic communities. Found it very interesting (still do to an extent) and still have a lot of respect for some in that community, such as Boyd Rice.

    Anton LaVey was undoubtedly Jewish but so was Jesus Christ and the shock and outrage towards him is not quite as harsh as it is towards Anton. To me, the CoS was always about image. Plain and simple. The CoS philosophy is the book Might is Right plus Ayn Rand's (another Jew) Objectivism with a rudimentary sprinkling of Nietzsche. Wrapped it all up in a scary imagery with a few rituals and sell to young, burnt out, teenage ex-hippies in your early years and young, burnt out, teenage metalheads in your later years.

    I see little to no relation between the CoS and Thelema and any inspiration Crowley may have served to LaVey was purely aesthetic.

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