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Thread: Non-Africans Have Neanderthal Genes

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    Non-Africans Have Neanderthal Genes

    It would account for the marked differences betweens Africans & the rest of humanity.

    Signs of Neanderthals Mating With Humans

    Neanderthals mated with some modern humans after all and left their imprint in the human genome, a team of biologists has reported in the first detailed analysis of the Neanderthal genetic sequence.

    The biologists, led by Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, have been slowly reconstructing the genome of Neanderthals, the stocky hunters that dominated Europe until 30,000 years ago, by extracting the fragments of DNA that still exist in their fossil bones. Just last year, when the biologists first announced that they had decoded the Neanderthal genome, they reported no significant evidence of interbreeding.

    Scientists say they have recovered 60 percent of the genome so far and hope to complete it. By comparing that genome with those of various present day humans, the team concluded that about 1 percent to 4 percent of the genome of non-Africans today is derived from Neanderthals. But the Neanderthal DNA does not seem to have played a great role in human evolution, they said.

    Read the entire article;

    I wonder if all non-Africans (all non-African ethnic & racial groups) have Neanderthal DNA. And I would say it probably did make a big difference in the evolution of those who left Africa, even if it is politically incorrect to say so.

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    It may not be "politically correct", but it's truth. "There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." -Thomas Jefferson

    I've had some very solid biology teachers and professors so far, none of whom were politically correct. My father was a biology major, anthropology minor and it's been great to hear what he learned before PC/cultural marxism took a hold of college campuses. Ever since I took my first high school biology class I've been skeptical of "human origins". I found it interesting that Neanderthal remains/artifacts only correspond to Caucasoid/Europid regions of the world. And yet many so called "scholars" still insist that the Neanderthals were all encompassing and were spread out all around the globe..

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    Chakravartin-
    For a species to survive in the cold north for as long as Neanderthal did,he had to have been somewhat intelligent.I truly believe that the Irish,Welsh,Euskadi or the Basque peoples and some other tribes of Europe have Neanderthal blood in them.So do people from the Levant.I think time will prove this correct
    I remember writing this in another section of the Forum.I'm glad they finally
    have found evidence of modern humans crossbreeding with Neanderthal.


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    The question is when we crossbred with Neanderthals and the negroes didn't then we obviously have been like negroes bevor and have been enhanced with Neanderthal intelligence.

    Given that if you bred a higher one with a lower one the result is in the middle the Neanderthaler must have been really intelligent. So why did he die out?
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Neaderthal genes

    Interesting! That might explain a few differences between Africans and Europeans. AND I wouldn't minimalise the effects of 1 to 4% genetic difference on the population as did the article. What small percent of the total genetic information does "diabetes proclivity" take up? and look at the outcome of that on a population... Ocko said, "we have been like Negroes before" but what we have been like is the precursors Europeans. As far as the current African race...And as far as why did they die out? Well they didn't really! At least not 1-4% apparently. And, when a numerically large culture comes in contact with a comparitively small culture, does not the smaller always suffer and decline. Amerindians in past history, Afrikaners in modern history, Anyone?

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    Always thought that we "are not all the same under our skin".

    From Wiki:
    The size of an individual gene or an organism's entire genome is often measured in base pairs because DNA is usually double-stranded. Hence, the number of total base pairs is equal to the number of nucleotides in one of the strands (with the exception of non-coding single-stranded regions of telomeres). The haploid human genome (23 chromosomes) is estimated to be about 3 billion base pairs long and to contain 20,000–25,000 distinct genes. (this should read chromosomes)

    So, with 2-4 percent difference this results in 6-12.000.000 base pairs difference, 40-100 chromosomes, where a chromosome can contain between 600-3000 genes.

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    The only thing which was really proven so far is that Eurasians-East Africans share genes with Neandertaloids which the Subsaharan Africans, which are others genetically quite variable and archaic in comparison, don't have.

    They used a very limited number of modern human variants for comparison and they only used the Neandertal genome for looking at genetic traits Homo sapiens evolved and Homo (sapiens?) neanderthalensis didnt.

    So they found out that (big surprise ) genes for brain development and the skull might be different and were positively selected in modern humans, not in Neandertaloids.

    They also dealt with a very small amoung of potential Neandertal DNA in the samples so far, namely 1 to 4 percent.

    Thats actually close to nothing, phenotypically completely irrelevant and the respective Neandertal traits indeed were largely bred out.

    But the real interesting question, which they didnt answered, is whether, regardless of how small the genetic contribution overall might have been, genes of the Neandertaloids were positively selected!

    THATS the real question!

    Because that would mean, regardless of how backward and primitive the Neandertaloids were overall, that probably SOME genetic traits they had were advantageous and were positively selected in those which came into contact with them - at least in some of those races - but are absent among others.

    Additionally, since they just compared genomes and found out that "Afrasians"/Eurasians + East Africans have more genes in common with these Neandertaloids than Subsaharan Africans, which are the Palaeafrican bunch which is more primitive and some said would have become almost a new species without later intermixture, not anything else.

    So there is still this possibility, which they recognised by themselves:
    Although gene flow from Neandertals into modern humans when they first left sub-Saharan Africa seems to be the most parsimonious model compatible with the current data, other scenarios are also possible. For example, we cannot currently rule out a scenario in which the ancestral population of present-day non-Africans was more closely related to Neandertals than the ancestral population of present-day Africans due to ancient substructure within Africa (Fig. 6). If after the divergence of Neandertals there was incomplete genetic homogenization between what were to become the ancestors of non-Africans and Africans, present-day non-Africans would be more closely related to Neandertals than are Africans. In fact, old population substructure in Africa has been suggested based on genetic (81) as well as paleontological data (86).
    Thats absolutely an option!

    And even if they mixed, it most likely happened, like always suggested, rather with the more progressive Near Eastern Neandertals, which is also more likely because all non-Subsaharans seem to show it, so an early sapiens-group in the Near East might have acquired it, so it was spread around the rest of the globe.

    Just assume such a situation for the second option I mentioned:



    - Blue: Classic Neandertals, eliminated by Homo sapiens with very few traces if any at all
    - Cyan: Progressive Neandertaloids which had contact to Homo sapiens, some genes left in Afrasians but not Subsaharans because:
    a) genflow with Homo sapiens
    b) closer relation to Afrasians, which split off from the Palaeafricans earlier than from Neandertaloids

    Because of that, Afrasians are closer to Neandertals, even classic ones, than Palaeafricans. BUT I would really like to see the results if looking at the Near Eastern Neandertaloids, BECAUSE they might share even MUCH more genetic variants!

    - Red: Modern Homo sapiens, ancestors of modern Afrasians
    - Khaki: Palaeafricans, branched off early but got genflow from Afrasians (one author can be quoted with "almost two species" because of a possible isolation of these two Afrasian and Palaeafrican populations)
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    Thanks Agrippa! I'll be doing a little more reading on the subject later because of your scholarly addition.

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    Here are some links directly related to the research study mentioned above.


    Science Magazine Special Summary:

    The Neanderthal Genome



    Research Articles:

    A Draft of the Neanderthal Genome

    Targeted Investigation of the Neandertal Genome by Array-Based Sequence Capture

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    Quote Originally Posted by perkuns View Post
    Interesting! That might explain a few differences between Africans and Europeans. AND I wouldn't minimalise the effects of 1 to 4% genetic difference on the population as did the article. What small percent of the total genetic information does "diabetes proclivity" take up? and look at the outcome of that on a population... Ocko said, "we have been like Negroes before" but what we have been like is the precursors Europeans. As far as the current African race...And as far as why did they die out? Well they didn't really! At least not 1-4% apparently. And, when a numerically large culture comes in contact with a comparitively small culture, does not the smaller always suffer and decline. Amerindians in past history, Afrikaners in modern history, Anyone?
    I've always really wondered about this sort of thing, and its good to see someone posting some useful and recent research. Its right to compare what happened between the colonists and amerindians with the Cro-Magnon and Neantherthal. It had to have taken the strongest strains of CroMagnon to compete against, fight and push back and absorb the neighboring Neantherthal species.
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