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Thread: Birth Certificate Bill Divides Arizona Lawmakers

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    Thumbs Up Birth Certificate Bill Divides Arizona Lawmakers

    PHOENIX (AP) — Arizona lawmakers expressing doubt over whether President Barack Obama was born in the United States are pushing a bill through the Legislature that would require the president to show his birth certificate to get on the state’s 2012 ballot.

    The House passed the measure Wednesday on a 31-29 vote, ignoring protests from opponents who said it’s casting Arizona in an ugly light and could give the elected secretary of state broad powers to kick a presidential candidate off the ballot.

    “We’re becoming a national joke,” Rep. Chad Campbell, a Phoenix Democrat who opposes the measure, said Thursday.

    The measure’s sponsor, Republican Rep. Judy Burges of Skull Valley, said she isn’t sure Obama could prove his eligibility for the ballot in Arizona and wants to erase all doubts.

    “You have half the population who thinks everything is fine, and you have the other half of the population who has had doubts built up in their mind,” Burges said.

    So-called “birthers” have contended since the 2008 presidential campaign that Obama is ineligible to be president because, they argue, he was actually born in Kenya, his father’s homeland. The Constitution says that a person must be a “natural-born citizen” to be eligible for the presidency.

    Hawaii officials have repeatedly confirmed Obama’s citizenship, and his Hawaiian birth certificate has been made public, along with birth notices from two Honolulu newspapers published within days of his birth in August 1961.

    Courts have rebuffed lawsuits challenging Obama’s eligibility, but the issue hasn’t gone away. Lawmakers have introduced similar bills in a handful of other states. They include Oklahoma, where a measure passed the House but failed in the Senate, and Missouri, where a bill was withdrawn before any action was taken.

    Eleven U.S. House Republicans have signed on to a federal bill, but it hasn’t received a hearing in the Democrat-controlled House.

    Arizona’s measure would require U.S. presidential candidates to submit documents to the secretary of state proving they meet the constitutional requirements to be president. The secretary of state could then decide to keep a candidate off the Arizona ballot if he or she had reasonable cause to believe the candidate was ineligible.

    Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett opposes the bill, arguing it gives his office too much power, according to his spokesman Matthew Benson. Benson said Bennett, a Republican, has no doubts about Obama’s citizenship.

    The bill now goes to the Senate, where supporters are trying to pull together enough votes to pass the measure. If they do, it’s unclear if Republican Gov. Jan Brewer will give it her support. Her spokesman, Paul Senseman, said the governor won’t comment on pending legislation, but he added she doesn’t have doubts about Obama’s citizenship.

    The measure comes amid a string of controversial proposals in Arizona that have garnered national attention, including a sweeping illegal immigration crackdown awaiting action by the governor and a measure allowing people to carry concealed weapons without permits. The governor signed the gun bill last week.

    Rep. Tom Chabin, D-Flagstaff, pleaded with his colleagues to oppose the birth certificate measure Wednesday.

    “When you undermine the sitting president of the United States, you undermine our nation, and it makes us look very ugly,” Chabin said Thursday.

    But some supporters insist the bill isn’t aimed at Obama, it’s just common sense.

    “It’s our ballot,” said state Sen. Jack Harper, R-Surprise, who believes Obama has proven his citizenship. “The parties need to prove that their nominee is eligible to hold the office of president to be on our ballot.”

    Source

    While I support the law's intent, there is one serious flaw that the lawmakers should be aware of: Americans do not vote directly for president. In each state they vote for a slate of electors, who have pledge to vote for a particular candidate in the Electoral College. I haven't read the bill but how does the bill address that issue? Would it forbid a slate of electors to appear on the ballot if the candidate they are pledge to hasn't proven their citizenship by birth? The vote for president is different from the vote for governor or senator or other elected offices because the vote is not direct.

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    HONOLULU – It's now law in Hawaii that the state government can ignore repetitive requests for President Barack Obama's birth certificate.

    Republican Gov. Linda Lingle signed into law Wednesday a bill allowing state government agencies not to respond to follow-up requests for information if they determine that the subsequent request is duplicative or substantially similar to a previous request.

    The law is aimed at so-called "birthers," who claim Obama is ineligible to be president. They contend the Democratic president was born outside the United States, and therefore doesn't meet a constitutional requirement for being president.

    Lingle didn't elaborate on her reasons for signing the bill, but state Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino previously issued statements saying that she's seen vital records that prove Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100513/..._certificate_2

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    ^ That still does not make him a American, there are other issues at hand here. Has he ever renounced his U.S. citizenship. Did he legally enter Pakistan when U.S. citizens were banned from that country. Was he not raised in Indonesia by his adoptive father, therefor making him a Indonesian. The burden of proof lays on him and those who conspired to groom him and get him elected.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Also, why can't we see the proof if it is so convincing? Excellent logic Hawaii. Some day it will come out that Obama was not only the first black president, but the first foreign national who subverted the constitution to become president.

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    If the destruction accelerates like it does right now there will be no election in 2012.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    ^ That still does not make him a American, there are other issues at hand here. Has he ever renounced his U.S. citizenship. Did he legally enter Pakistan when U.S. citizens were banned from that country. Was he not raised in Indonesia by his adoptive father, therefor making him a Indonesian. The burden of proof lays on him and those who conspired to groom him and get him elected.
    That won't make him an indonesian either. But his mother was a US citizen all her life and this would make him eglible for natural born US citizenship. Or is there any law against it?
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    The definition of natural born citizen is somewhat not clear.

    Most opinions claim one has to have American parents. That would disqualify Obama as his father was Kenyan and therefore carried a British passport. (beside he was still married in Kenya when being married to Obama's mother.

    But it has no meaning anymore as the rule of law does not exist anymore in the US. The Jewish crime syndicate has also corrupted the judiciary branch.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    That won't make him an indonesian either. But his mother was a US citizen all her life
    There is some question about this. The State Department records on Ann Dunham Obama Soetero are sealed. There is the belief that she took Indonesian citizenship for herself & her son. Dunham lived mainly in Indonesia from the mid 1960s to the early 1990s when she returned to Hawaii when she was terminally ill with ovarian cancer. When Obama visited Indonesia in 2010 his old schoolteacher was interviewed and she showed Obama's school records from the 1960s, which gave his place of birth as Honolulu, his religion as Muslim & his nationality as Indonesian.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    and this would make him eglible for natural born US citizenship. Or is there any law against it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    The definition of natural born citizen is somewhat not clear.

    Most opinions claim one has to have American parents. That would disqualify Obama as his father was Kenyan and therefore carried a British passport. (beside he was still married in Kenya when being married to Obama's mother.
    Ann Dunham was 18 when BHO was born. If he was born outside of the US then Dunham could not have passed on her citizenship to BHO because the law at the time require that an individual had to be a citizen of the US for a minimum of 19 years for their natural born child, born outside the US, to be a citizen by birth. And then there is the issue that Dunham & BHO renounced their US citizenship & took Indonesian citizenship.

    The issue with the Hawaiian birth certificate is that Hawaii allows children born to Hawaiians residents out of Hawaii to have their birth registered in Hawaii. This is because there has been talk from time to time of restricting movement into Hawaii from the Mainland so as to guaranty residency rights to persons with Hawaiian ties. Also to give American passports to Asian & Pacific Islanders who might be visiting their home country at the time of birth of a child. The idea of restricting movement into Hawaii from other parts of the US is unconstitutional (unless they make the entire state some kind of native reserve) but the Hawaiian politicians discuss it anyway.

    The Us does not recognized dual citizenship. When persons take US citizenship they must renounce the previous citizenship (though other nations do not recognized this renounciation, hence Mexicans who take Us citizenship are also recognized as Mexicans citizens) & individuals with US & another nationality by birth must choose one after they turn 18. Now BHO traveled to Pakistan in 1981 (for some unexplained reason & how it was founded is also unclear) at a time when US citizens could not travel there. So he did not enter on a US passport. So he must have used either a Kenyan passport or a Indonesian passport. Whichever it was he effectly surrended his US citizenship (if he ever had it) by using another passport, effectly choosing another nationality he had claim to over the US.

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