View Poll Results: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

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  • Yes Christianity did have a Positive Effect on Europe

    29 42.03%
  • Europe would have been better without Christianity's Influence

    13 18.84%
  • Christianity Ruined Europe

    21 30.43%
  • Christianity Strengthend Europe and Without it Europe would still be in the Dark Ages

    6 8.70%
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Thread: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

  1. #21
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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    IMHO, X-tianity had a very negative impact on Europe. The most fundamental differerence between x-tians and pagans is that we pagans are polytheists and x-tians are monotheists.

    "Thou shalt have only one god". This is totalitarianism. Uniformity of soul and mind. Think like us or else... How many millions of pagans have been slaughtered? How much of our pagan traditions have been lost in this oppression?
    Remember, in every little village in europe, for hundreds of years, there was an ardent priestkommisar who did his best to stamp out anything pagan. And they seem to have done quite a good job. Much have been lost forever.

    X-tianity is a little present we got from the jews, that we in my opinion could have been without. The same with communism, it only had a different package.

    As for paganism, it's for the modern european, the old religion for the future.
    I recommend you to read articles of de Benoist. Availible on the net.

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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balder
    IMHO, X-tianity had a very negative impact on Europe. The most fundamental differerence between x-tians and pagans is that we pagans are polytheists and x-tians are monotheists.

    "Thou shalt have only one god". This is totalitarianism. Uniformity of soul and mind. Think like us or else... How many millions of pagans have been slaughtered? How much of our pagan traditions have been lost in this oppression?
    Remember, in every little village in europe, for hundreds of years, there was an ardent priestkommisar who did his best to stamp out anything pagan. And they seem to have done quite a good job. Much have been lost forever.

    X-tianity is a little present we got from the jews, that we in my opinion could have been without. The same with communism, it only had a different package.

    As for paganism, it's for the modern european, the old religion for the future.
    I recommend you to read articles of de Benoist. Availible on the net.
    Thank you for the suggested lecture.
    First of all, I must admit I am not guided by hate in my life and this is a thing which I due to the Christianism. It is already a good thing, I think. We were not meant to smash each others to ashes for ever. That's why we aren't animals, but humans. And I think this what Christianism prevented and I am quite found of it.

    Second of all, if the Christianism would have meant such a huge backward step, it would surely not have been accepted by such a number of people, replacing the existing religions. Perhaps it was and it still is imho capable of giving aswers where other religions failed.

    Concerning the institutional aspect of Christianism, it is another problem.

  3. #23
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    Post Re: AW: Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triglav
    I assume you have never heard of Germanic runes, let alone their Slavic counterparts...
    To my knowledge, runes were a fortune-telling device and not used to record literature of any type.

    As for the people, what else than the usual hate propaganda written by Christians are you familiar with?
    I consider my best sources on pre-Christian Celts and Germans to be Tacitus' "Agricola" and "Germania." I'm not saying that the pre-Christian Northerners were without their virtues - but I find the standard anti-Christian romanticism insufficient as a counterfactual model of European history.

    Christianity civilized Northern Europe. To be a Christian was to be a civilized man, at the time.

    And as for the benefits of pagan polytheistic pluralism - I agree with Plato that societies function best that are least pluralistic. I consider pluralism to be a major problem in the modern West. It makes the medieval intolerance more understandable.

    And as for the proposed Christian feminization of Northern European men: pre-Christian Roman sources describe greater gender equality in the North than in the Mediterranean.
    Last edited by Scoob; Friday, June 25th, 2004 at 05:20 PM.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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  5. #24
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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balder
    IMHO, X-tianity had a very negative impact on Europe. The most fundamental differerence between x-tians and pagans is that we pagans are polytheists and x-tians are monotheists.
    Wow, you figured that all by yourself? :eyes

    "Thou shalt have only one god". This is totalitarianism.
    LOL! Funny you should say that, considering that modern totalitarianism and absolutism came with the revival of pagan ideals during the Renasiance and the Enlightenment with its "Enlightened Despots". As I've been arguing with Moody Lawless, medieval Monarchs(ie Christian ones) never had the unlimited power that pagan dictators had. They had many contraints on their power, and like anybody else had to respect and operate within the law.


    ”In the absolutist state, sovereignty is embodied in the person of the ruler. The ruler is not restrained by any legal authority. Absolute kings claim to rule by divine right, meaning that they were responsible to God alone. (Medieval kings had governed “by the grace of God”, but invariably had to respect and obey the law.)….Absolute rulers effectively controlled all competing jurisdictions, all institutions or interest groups within their territories. They regulated religious sects. They abolished the liberties(privledges) long held by certain areas, groups, or provinces….Medieval governments had been able to do none of these things. They had been restrained by the church, the feudal nobility, and by their own financial limitations.”
    --John P. McKay, Bennet D. Hill, John Buckler A History of World Societies pg.716


    A pagan can certainly be a tyrant, but a Christian cannot.

    "We are no tyrant, but a Christian king;"
    --King Henry V from Shakespeare's Henry V Act I Scene 2


    Uniformity of soul and mind. Think like us or else... How many millions of pagans have been slaughtered?
    How many Christians were slaughtered by pagans, for simply not worshipping the Emperor as god. Moody even provided the example of James Intercisus, who was murdered simply because he refused to engaged in a pagan ritual. Do I even need to mention how Roman pagans treated the Druids? Or how pagan Vikings massacred defensless monks and priests all over Europe? Dont hand me this!

    How much of our pagan traditions have been lost in this oppression?
    LOL! If anything Christianity preserved them by incorporating many elements of pagan ritual and traditions into its fold.

    Remember, in every little village in europe, for hundreds of years, there was an ardent priestkommisar who did his best to stamp out anything pagan.
    pathetic attempt to compare Christianity to Communism. Obviously you passed by your head that Communism was staunchly anti-Christian and massacred Christians by the MILLIONS! Wheras according to Henry Kamen, the Inquisition at most burned 3 PEOPLE PER YEAR over a 300 year span of time.


    And they seem to have done quite a good job. Much have been lost forever.
    And how much was preserved? Especially in terms of scientific knowledge.

    "The contribution of the religious culture of the early Middle Ages to the scientific movement was thus one of preservation and transmission. The monastaries served as the transmitters of literacy and a thin version of classical traditions(including science or natural philosophy) through a period when literacy and scholarship were severly threatened. Without them, Western Europe would not have more science, but less."
    --David C. Lindberg, "The Beginnings of Western Science: The European Scientific Tradition in Philosophical, Religious, and Institutional Context, 600 BC to AD 1450" pg 157


    X-tianity is a little present we got from the jews,
    :eyes Wrong!

    "Despite the ostensible merging of Judean and Jew even in certain New Testament passages and by the rabbis who became rulers of Palestine in the third century and continued to use Hebrew and Aramaic more than Greek, the roots of Christianity were not Jewish. Christianity did not derive from the Judaism of the pharisees, but emerged like Judaism from the wider Judean milieu of the first century. Both Christians and Jews stemmed from pre-70 Judean-ism as heirs of groups that were to take on the role of primary guardians or interpreters of scripture as they developed on parallel tracks in relation to each other."
    --Robert and Mary Coote Power, Politics, and the Making of the Bible


    But even if Christianity is a gift from the Jews, to try to prove so only undermines your assertion that its non-European in nature.

    "It is precisely these Jewish origins of Christianity that draw our attention toward Hellenism in the larger sense, in its cultural and intellectual dimensions. The mindsets, the way of thinking, the literary products of the first Christian centuries bear witness to the meeting that had already taken place between Hellenism and Judaism. A process of Hellenization began with the Greek translation of the Torah, the Pentateuch, and continued with the works written directly in Greek, like the Book of Wisdom. It grew more vigorous in Alexandrian Judaism, owning to contributions by authors such as Aristobulus and especially Philon; the latter consciously adapted Greek philosophical concepts to his understanding of the Bible by means of allegory, producing a theology, a cosmology, and an anthropology that profoundly influenced the first church fathers."
    --"Hellenism and Christianity" from "Greek thought : a guide to classical knowledge" edited by Jacques Brunschwig and Geoffrey E.R. Lloyd, with the collaboration of Pierre Pellegrin ; translated under the direction of Catherine Porter. page 859


    So one fact cannot be denied mister:
    "Still, one fact must be stressed. Christianity has had a strong tie to Hellenism from the beginning, in that it was spread by means of Greek. The oldest Christian writings, including the authentic letters of Paul, were written in Greek. Whatever may have been the linguistic form of oral tradition and underlying sources of the canonical Gospels, these, too, were composed in Greek. The choice is not limited to the mission of the "Apostle to the Gentiles". It is inherent in the usage of communities that produced the texts that were later canonized as a cherent set, the New Testament. The Jews of the Diaspora were speakers of Greek. They adopted the koine, the language of communication throughout the Orient from the time of Alexander's conquests. Galilee was strongly marked by Hellenistic civilization, and even in Judea, Greek was widespread.
    --"Hellenism and Christianity" from "Greek thought : a guide to classical knowledge" edited by Jacques Brunschwig and Geoffrey E.R. Lloyd, with the collaboration of Pierre Pellegrin ; translated under the direction of Catherine Porter. page 858


    A very good book on the relationship between Christianity and Greek thinking is Plato and Paul by J.W. Mendenhau. Indeed on page 340 he explains:
    "Thus the old philosophy[aka traditional Greek thinking] sustained an intimate relation to Christianity. It reflected its teachings and prepared the way for the apostolic proclamations to such an extent that Prof. Draper says: "Christianity was essentially a Greek religion."

    Of course Mendenhau rejects this claim of Christianity being purely a Greek religion, but nevertheless admits its plausible because of the strong relation between Christianity and Greek philosophy.

    The same with communism, it only had a different package.
    oh yes, please prove to us how Christianity and Communism are related, I'd love to hear this!

    As for paganism, it's for the modern european, the old religion for the future.
    I recommend you to read articles of de Benoist. Availible on the net.
    :eyes You do realize that de Benoist cooperates constantly with Christian nationalists and has even admitted on several occasions to have been influenced by Catholic Social Doctrine. I assume you were aware of this?

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  7. #25
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    Post Re: AW: Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    I'll clarify a little on "pluralism". I think the primitive pagan mind was quite different from the modern mind, so comparing modern multiculturalism to pagan polytheism ignores some important differences.

    I think maybe gods are a human form of collective consciousness. Many pagan gods were tribal patrons/mascots and not neccessarily part of any pantheon. They were inseparable from ideas of community.

    But in a modern context - I think pluralism is quite destructive. Humans need to be harmonized/organized collectively to really achieve anything as a society. That's why the ancients invented pantheons.

    As for how neo-pagan religion fits into this? I'm not quite sure. It's all individualized neo-religion.

    I think modern metaphysics has more to do with deeper ideas of individual achievement/fulfillment, technological progress, rationalism, etc.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: AW: Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Neo-paganism has little to do with historical paganism. Much of it is just New Age nonsense with a more folkish agenda. Interesting the biggest complain I find on many pagan websites and in many pagan publications are directed against Christian teachings on sex. Boohooo! :eyes

    As Hitler himself said, paganism became obsolete with the coming of Christianity.

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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    The possitive impact of christianity in Europe:Christians "improving" Greek-Roman culture,basis of European civilasation.Picture taken from monastery of Esfigmenos of Athos.

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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Yes,Alkman .And many of them in our present days they have the same feelings about our ancient heritage!
    ME NE FREGO

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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Positive impact at that time, but I see the death of it a little later in history might have been a positive. This Jewish intervention of Christ has people down on their knees praying to a pedestrian that myths have past on and created people to believe that religion is above all things, which is not a good thing.

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    Post Re: All In All Did Christianity Have A Positive Impact on Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by PRINCE EUGEN
    Yes,Alkman .And many of them in our present days they have the same feelings about our ancient heritage!
    All they did all those centuries were fight against and betraying Hellenism.Just check the 2 buddies of first picture,Mohhament B,the conquer of Constantinople, and Gennadios Sholarios,first Patriarch after the fall.There is an advise in second pic...

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