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Thread: Are Protestantism and Catholicism Ethnic Divisions Along a Germanic and Mediterranid Line?

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    Are Protestantism and Catholicism Ethnic Divisions Along a Germanic and Mediterranid Line?

    From these maps protestantism seems to be moer a denomination of Germanic Europe while Catholicism is accepted in parts of Europe that have Mediterranian heritage or influence. The Northern and Southern aspects of Germany and Holland are clearly visible in these maps.

    Catholicism is a religion of Rome, Italy, of Spain and of the Celtic countries of France, Ireland and Scotland, in contrast these maps show Protestantism to be a religion of the Northern Germans, Scandinavians, English and Frisians.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress Germania View Post
    From these maps protestantism seems to be moer a denomination of Germanic Europe while Catholicism is accepted in parts of Europe that have Mediterranian heritage or influence. The Northern and Southern aspects of Germany and Holland are clearly visible in these maps.
    You've obviously never heard of the counter-reformation, eh?
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Scotland is mostly Protestant - Calvinist Presbyterianism. The Catholics there are mainly descended from Irish immigrants. And about 1/2 of all Germans are Catholic. A significant number of Dutch (Netherlanders) are also Catholic. There would appear to be more going on here then just Germanic vs Med. You could say that Meds were nearly all Catholic, whereas a significant number of Germanics were also Catholic, with a majority being Protestant.

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    I never thought of the two divisions in Christianity like that. I think it is a pure historical coincidence (maybe an anomaly), then, that Protestantism just so happened to be carried out by primarily Germanics. It's probably more of a regional thing than a racial thing.

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    Catholicism is a religion of Rome, Italy, of Spain and of the Celtic countries of France, Ireland and Scotland
    Scotland is not a Catholic country and even according to your maps, Scotland is in the shade of Protestantism.

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    If you look at all countries in question, it was often more about political influence and chance rather than the people's beliefs whether they became Protestants or stayed Catholic.

    F.e. among the first sects which revolted against Catholicism were rather Mediterranid people, f.e. in Southern France - we might think about the Huguenots!

    In many parts of Austria Protestantism was already dominant, when the partly violent counter-reformation changed things again. "Crypto-Protestants" lived in various areas of Austria to this day, living their Protestant ideas in private, some others were transferred to Prussia or fled there (East Prussia had a lot of people from Salzburg) and later to Transylvania.

    The power of certain dynasties and the Pope was just much stronger in the South and various factors favoured the Protestantism in the North - among those was the Germanic mentality probably, but this was not crucial alone, especially not for the current distribution, which was drawn by the sword in most cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    The power of certain dynasties and the Pope was just much stronger in the South and various factors favoured the Protestantism in the North - among those was the Germanic mentality probably, but this was not crucial alone, especially not for the current distribution, which was drawn by the sword in most cases.
    The distribution was forcefully imposed, however, the existence of protestantism is due to Germanic spirit, furthermore it might indicate that the Hugenots had a stronger Germanic ancestry so to say, or at least mirrored the Germanic racial composition.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    The distribution was forcefully imposed, however, the existence of protestantism is due to Germanic spirit, furthermore it might indicate that the Hugenots had a stronger Germanic ancestry so to say, or at least mirrored the Germanic racial composition.
    Actually the first anti-Catholic movements in Europe were mostly based in the South.

    One could also say two things:
    - They were ruined there "before the right time" and after it was ruined, those places were save for Catholic structures - similar to the areas of counter-reformation. I might just remind you on the Albigenser & Co.

    - Further away from Rome people took Christianity often even more serious, like Nietzsche put it, Luther was one of those people of his time who looked at Christianity and took every part of it serious in its own way. That were the common people, who wanted a new Christianity, but without the rulers, which wanted the money and power taken away from the church for their absolute reign, it was something different.

    It started that way in England and was similar elsewhere. That was simply no option for the long lasting empires and dynasties of the South, which were so closely associated, even personally, with the Catholic church, nor the cultivated way of life they had.

    But overall, its a very complex story and the Germanic influences in Lutheranism (its original form, not what became out of it now) are obvious, it was the most reasonable Western, Christian religion for quite some time, until WW2 so to say.

    Calvinism had always, especially in some sects, that Jewish spirit, like a 2nd Judaisation for Christian Europeans and their ruin on the longer run, but Lutherans and those Calvinists closer to them had a better standard, until recently...

    But all of that had little to do with the racial composition I guess, as so different people were influenced by it at different times and for different reasons - by Protestantism or Catholicism, but this little racial aspect seems to be the more introverted-schizothymic tendency of the Nordoid spectrum of the North.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Scotland is not a Catholic country and even according to your maps, Scotland is in the shade of Protestantism.
    Exactly. Catholicism exists in England and Scotland today mainly due to 19th/20th century Irish immigration.

    To put thing in perspective, the catholic population of Liverpool, an Irish English city, is 46.03%, compared to 3.73% in Nottingham, an English English city.

    Likewise, an Irish Scottish city like Glasgow has a catholic population of 28.78%, while a Scottish Scottish city like Aberdeen has a catholic population of 1.6%.

    http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/scgb1.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Actually the first anti-Catholic movements in Europe were mostly based in the South.
    At first, rather in the East - with the Bogomils from Bulgary (tenth century), if you're referring to the Middle Ages, that is - 'cause heresy is as old as Christianity itself.

    'Catharism' afterwards emerged in the area of Cologne and in Flanders. It spread from these regions and Northern Italy to Occitania.




    I totally subscribe to your point of view, nonetheless, Agrippa. I just want to add that the Germanic factor caused the problems existing between the secular power and the priesthood, starting with Charlemagne's coronation by the pope. The Germanic values of honor and loyalty combined with our desire for 'freedom' have always prevented the existence of a full blown theocracy, even in medieval times, when the Church was at the peak of its strength. This is the legacy of our ancestors - it is part of our day to day reality.

    In the words of James Russell: "Christianity was 'converted' by the Germans."
    "If we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.” ― Douglas Coupland, Shampoo Planet

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