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Thread: Churchill Had Plan to Invade 'Nazi' Ireland

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    Churchill Had Plan to Invade 'Nazi' Ireland

    TimesOnline.co.uk

    March 21, 2010

    Churchill had plan to invade ‘Nazi’ Ireland

    Winston Churchill was urged to use Scottish troops to invade Ireland during the second world war to rid the country of Nazi influence, previously unpublished government papers have revealed.

    Lord Craigavon, the Northern Irish prime minister, wrote to Churchill in 1940 to ask that Highland regiments be used to overthrow the Irish government and install a military governor in Dublin.

    Craigavon, a staunch unionist, claimed that Eamon de Valera, the Irish prime minister, had fallen under Nazi influence and that a crossborder invasion was needed to oust him.
    Click here to read the full article

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    I would like to have seen them try that! I suppose he had forgotten 1916, 1922. The Irish managed to defeate the world's largest empire with a hand full of Meath farmers, imagine what would happen if the British would fought the army of the free state, under De Valeria.

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    The British lost Ireland for the same reason we lost Vietnam. There was no military obstacle to victory. Had the British Army invaded the Free State during the Second World War, under conditions of wartime censorship and with a belief that Ireland was under Axis influence, victory would've been likely.

    Too bad this didn't happen. As an American with no Irish blood it's very easy to hate the Irish.

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    Yea right, the Irish sent the British home once before, The British Army were just criminals (black and tans) who could only rape and kill children, and could not handle a fight with real men.

    But I guess you being American, would know all about going into poor third-world countries to kill women and children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorfinnsson View Post
    The British lost Ireland for the same reason we lost Vietnam. There was no military obstacle to victory. Had the British Army invaded the Free State during the Second World War, under conditions of wartime censorship and with a belief that Ireland was under Axis influence, victory would've been likely.

    Too bad this didn't happen. As an American with no Irish blood it's very easy to hate the Irish.
    I don't think fighting a war with a neutral country because of some axis influence would have had a positive effect on the British war effort. I don't think more content for the IRA's recruitment material would have done much good.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_n...y#World_War_II

    I know it's wikipedia, but it seems to be accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irby View Post
    Yea right, the Irish sent the British home once before, The British Army were just criminals (black and tans) who could only rape and kill children, and could not handle a fight with real men.

    But I guess you being American, would know all about going into poor third-world countries to kill women and children.
    Criminals have been present in most armies throughout history and have fought well. Prior to the Cardwell Reforms the British Army had a very large number of criminals, but always acquitted itself admirably in battle. The French Foreign Legion has been (in)famous for its criminal soldiers, but has always had a superb reputation.

    Rape and slaughter may be unpleasant, but I'm not aware that they are correlated with reduced military efficacy unless they proceed to the point that the army loses discipline and becomes little more than plundering rabble.

    The total number of dead in the Irish War of Independence, on both sides including civilian casualties, was 2,014. The British suffered 761 dead, of which only 261 accrued to the British Army. This is a trivial figure.

    The British were not militarily defeated nor run out of Ireland. Instead, they considered the costing of retaining Ireland to not be worth it and suffered a loss of morale from the atrocities of the Black and Tans--King George V was notably sickened. In short they lost their nerve and their will to power.

    And being American, that is to say the citizen of an imperial power, I am of course familiar with colonial wars just as you, a Briton, are.

    The tone of your post suggest I may have miffed you, perhaps with my not so subtly implied anti-Irish sentiment. I see you have Irish ancestry, and I mean no disrespect to you or to Ireland. My anti-Irish sentiment stems from the conduct of Irish-Americans, which is very irritating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deifr View Post
    I don't think fighting a war with a neutral country because of some axis influence would have had a positive effect on the British war effort. I don't think more content for the IRA's recruitment material would have done much good.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_n...y#World_War_II

    I know it's wikipedia, but it seems to be accurate.
    Indeed, which is why the British did not pursue such a course of action. Churchill considered diplomatically haranguing de Valera's government, but chose not to on the advice of Stanley Baldwin.

    Ireland presented no threat (though Britain was furious at the closure of the treaty ports given the Battle of the Atlantic) at all, and making war upon her would've diverted scarce military and naval assets from far more important theaters. Perhaps worst of all, attacking Ireland would've caused Britain to lose much of her moral standing (especially in the United States) and given the Germans a propaganda field day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorfinnsson View Post
    The British lost Ireland for the same reason we lost Vietnam. There was no military obstacle to victory. Had the British Army invaded the Free State during the Second World War, under conditions of wartime censorship and with a belief that Ireland was under Axis influence, victory would've been likely.

    Too bad this didn't happen. As an American with no Irish blood it's very easy to hate the Irish.
    What do have against the Irish.Any Irish man could easily thump your skull any day.Besides that,it is has been said "The British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and the profits went to the English.
    The Irish on average are bigger,stronger and faster than any other European
    people.
    And you being so proud of not having any Irish in you and being from Chicago I guarantee you that you have Polish or Italian in you.So I dare you to mouth off to any Irish man Pole.


    http://www.doyle.com.au/irish_soldie...british_ar.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokies Domain View Post
    What do have against the Irish.Any Irish man could easily thump your skull any day.Besides that,it is has been said "The British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and the profits went to the English.
    The Irish on average are bigger,stronger and faster than any other European
    people.
    And you being so proud of not having any Irish in you and being from Chicago I guarantee you that you have Polish or Italian in you.So I dare you to mouth off to any Irish man Pole.


    http://www.doyle.com.au/irish_soldie...british_ar.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorfinnsson View Post
    The tone of your post suggest I may have miffed you, perhaps with my not so subtly implied anti-Irish sentiment. I see you have Irish ancestry, and I mean no disrespect to you or to Ireland. My anti-Irish sentiment stems from the conduct of Irish-Americans, which is very irritating.
    I have nothing in particular against the Irish, and while I have no Irish blood (my background is entirely Swedish) if I had any I would be proud of it. I am annoyed by the bandwagoning Irish sentiment in America, just as I am annoyed with the bandwagoning Italian sentiment. Anyone who has Irish ancestry blows it up out of proportion, as if being Irish were some special badge of honor compared to, say, German. We just had St. Patrick's Day, and as I do every year, I wore orange in protest. I even took the normally green collar of our vizsla and put on an orange one for the day.

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    Fair enough, I accept what Thorfinnsson says that he doesn't this like the Irish or Ireland. I think it was just a bit of a misunderstanding!

    In fact I feel quite the same way about 'everybody' wanting to claim Irish background, and I can imagine it is worse in the USA. My father is from Ireland, and I really don't feel Irish, so it seems strange that people in the USA with a very small amount of Irish blood seem to go over the top.

    You also seem to know your Anglo-Irish history so I won't argue with you, (for the record I am a Neolithic archaeologist specialising in Scandinavian and British prehistory) so modern history is not my thing.

    But I still won't agree that the British would have ever come back! We will have to agree to disagree! You have to remember Irish history is about fighting, from the Battle of Battle of Clontarf to the recent troubles in Northern Ireland. As Michael Collins said to the British delegation at Dublin Castle after he kept them waiting for 8 minutes

    "Sir, I have been waiting 800 years, you can have your 8 minutes!."

    I other words, in Ireland invaders have been threatening for a thousand years, Churchill is only one, but as far as I can see the tricolour is still high over Dublin.

    Unfortunately, I think immigration will do what no army has ever done, and take Ireland without a fight. That is why I am here, because it is not about English or Irish anymore, we are all brothers now and we have to stop fighting between each other.

    What a world we live in when European nationalists will look for support from Muslims against Zionism, but they cannot not see a follow brother in the Western lands on the fringe of Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokies Domain View Post
    What do have against the Irish.Any Irish man could easily thump your skull any day.Besides that,it is has been said "The British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and the profits went to the English.
    Like Thorfinnsson, my beef with the Irish concerns their conduct in America.
    The Irish on average are bigger,stronger and faster than any other European people.
    I noticed you didn't put smarter.

    And you being so proud of not having any Irish in you and being from Chicago I guarantee you that you have Polish or Italian in you.So I dare you to mouth off to any Irish man Pole.
    I know plenty of people from Chicago who are not Irish, Italian or Polish. As for famous people from Chicago who do not have any of those 3 ethnicities; Hillary Clinton & Michelle Obama.

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