Can True Nationalists Be Pro-Semitic?

[SaxonPagan]

... outside Israel, of course

I would contend that the contradiction is just too great but would welcome any opposing views on this.

[Joe McCarthy]

... outside Israel, of course

I would contend that the contradiction is just too great but would welcome any opposing views on this.

Probably not, but I will say that Johann Herder, the father of ethnic nationalism, was a sort of proto-Zionist. He saw Jews as alien and undigestable and recommended separation. I have roughly the same view, and it is why I tend to look askance at anti-Zionist diatribes.

[SaxonPagan]

So you mean "pro-Semitic" in the sense that you want all Jews in Israel then, Joe?

I'd go along with that!

[Joe McCarthy]

So you mean "pro-Semitic" in the sense that you want all Jews in Israel then, Joe?

I'd go along with that!

I think the only coherent and realistic anti-Semitic position at present is to support a Jewish state. If anything anti-Zionism is effectively pro-Semitic in that it pressures Israel and causes Jews to move back into the West. This is the main reason why I support stopping Iran's nuclear program. We already know based on polling that if Iran goes nuclear, scared Israeli Jews are going to leave Israel.

[SaxonPagan]

Hmm, it seems the only trouble with having a Jewish state is that WE have to pay for it

I still think Hitler had the right idea!

[Joe McCarthy]

I'm curious what folks think of Fascist Italy's attitude toward Jews.

This from Alain de Benoist:

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/?p=4216

Before 1938, the Fascist government never adopted any antisemitic position. This is of course a big difference with German Nazism. In 1932, Mussolini declared to the German Jew Emil Ludwig: Antisemitism does’nt exist in Italy [...] The Jews always behaved themselves as good citizens, and as soldiers they fought always with courage. In 1934, Nahum Goldmann, then president of the Jewish Delegations Committee, was cordially received by Mussolini, who said to him: You are a great people. You will stay a great people, long after this stupid Adolf Hitler will have disappeared. The complete text of the interview has been published, as has been published the text of the very interesting conversations between Mussolini and Chaim Weizmann on February 17, 1934. Between 1934 and 1937, 153 young members of the Zionist movement run by Vladimir Jabotinsky were officilly trained by the Fascist Party in the Naval School (Scuola Maritima) of Civitavecchia. Mussolini even agreed to become honorary president of th Italian-Zionist Federation.

In 1919, five of the founders of the future Fascist Party were members of the Jewish community. Among the first Fascists killed before the March on Rome (October 1922) one find Gino Bolaffi, Bruno Mondolfo and Duilio Sinigaglia, all Jews. In 1933, the number of Jewish members of the Fascist party was 4920, slightly more than 10 % of the total number of Italian Jews. In the twenties and the thirties, many Jews occupiied the highest positions in the Fascist regime : Aldo Finzi, undersecretary at the Ministry of Interior and member of the Great Council of the National Fascist Party (PNF), Maurizio Rava, governor of Somalia and general of the Voluntary Militia for National Security (MVSN), Dante Almansi, deputy chief of the Police, Renzo Ravenna, mayor of Ravenna, Giorgio Del Vecchio, first fascist rector of the University of Rome, Guido Jung, minister of Finances between 1932 and 1935, Gino Arias, Angelo Oliviero Olivetti, etc.

At that time, Mussolini himself shared his life with his mistress, the famous Margherita Sarfatti, one of the main member of the Jewish community, who wrote a biography of him and was then more or less the great primadonna of the cultural and artistic life in Fascist Italy (she was also the editor of the official ideological journal of the Party, Gerarchia). To suggest that these people were not even aware of their supposed Jewishness is just ridiculous.

I guess the question is: what do we make of this, and was Mussolini a 'true nationalist'?

[Joe McCarthy]

What is little known is that Arthur Balfour, known for the declaration that bears his name, was an anti-Semite who supported Zionism as a means to get rid of Jews.

http://www.labournet.net/other/0312/zionism1.html

The only member of Lloyd George’s Cabinet to object to the Balfour Declaration was its sole Jewish member, Sir Edwin Montagu - on the grounds of anti-Semitism. The hero of the Zionism, Arthur Balfour, as Home Secretary introduced the Aliens Bill in 1906 with the specific purpose of preventing Jewish victims of the pogroms from coming to Britain.

We read further in Brenner's Zionism in the Age of the Dictators:

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch01.htm

Weizmann knew the full extent of Balfour’s anti-semitism, as he had unburdened himself of his philosophy to the Zionist on 12 December 1914. In a private letter, Weizmann wrote: “He told me how he had once had a long talk with Cosima Wagner at Bayreuth and that he shared many of her anti-Semitic postulates.”

[Zimobog]

The answer is "yes", Nationalist can be pro-Semetic... especially Semetic Nationalists.


If Germanic nations can actually be inclusive and pluralist and still survive, what harm can being "pro-Semitic" bring? How would being pro-Slav or pro-Celt be any different if a Germanic nation had a large Slav or Celt minority. The issue is with a dominant minority diluting or subverting Germanic culture isn't it?

[Sigurd]

You can be Nationalist and not hostile to Jews, that is certainly possible, as the opposition to Jews is basically based upon Jewish dominance in our countries, the shady business they conduct in the form of the Israeli state, and their sticking their nose into business that doesn't concern them in the least.

Ultimately, any serious Germanic Nationalist ought to be pro-Zionist to some extent. The idea to get rid of the Jewish control of our countries is interlinked with the ideas to create a Jewish state in some derelict place (for which Palestine is not the best place), curiously the Jews should have taken up on the Madagascar idea as it is by far more fertile than the Negev desert, TBH.

Essentially, a Jewish state that is self-contained, does not infringe upon the settlement rights of other peoples (though TBH the Palestinians are far from innocent) and in a place far, far away from our interests - and of course doesn't involve itself in the dealings of our countries can only be in our interest. In fact, if the Jews have a state which contains all Jews and which doesn't bother us in the least much like the Cambodians, Kazhaks and Eritreans have their own state, then I wouldn't mind having a Jewish state somewhere on this globe. I believe in the preservation of all cultures, as long as they stay to a certain part of the globe to which they belong and don't bother the rest --- much like I couldn't give a damn about Muslim genital mutilation in Saudi Arabia: not my part of the world, and as long as they don't come to my front door, not my business.

A comrade actually once advocated the idea of a "BNP Friends of Israel" on Stormfront, addressing the point that perhaps Israel should be shifted to a different place, and was temp-banned for it. That is essentially in total contradiction to the general idea --- I mean what do people expect, that Jews move out from our countries with no place to go? That's not going to work. Give them a Jewish state somewhere, perhaps Madagascar or perhaps Southern Patagonia or perhaps the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and shove them all there.

Basically, to sum it up again, Pro-Semitic and Pro-Germanic one cannot be, but being pro-Germanic and pro-Zionist to some extent IMO is necessary as IMHO the only way we can get rid of all the Jews is by giving them a derelict place to found a new Jewish state and repatriate all of them to there.

[velvet]

Probably we should sort some terms that are used here with blind interchange, before we answer the question?

Pro-Semite is someone who is in favour of the semitic race, which contains more people than only Jews. A senseful pro thus can only come from Semites.

Pro-Zionism is someone who is in favour of the Jewish claim of the world rulership, which is not at all limited to the state Israel. A senseful pro thus can only come from Jews.

A "true nationalist", in my opinion, cannot support either of that. He can be indifferent to the existence of the Semitic race and the state of Israel, as long as both stay in their cesspool, but "support" in my understanding implies more than that.

And a "true nationalist" cannot support or be indifferent to the presence of ANY alien race within his own nation, whether they "behave", be "decent" or otherwise "nice" people. In my understanding a nationalist is first and foremost in favour of his own people, not more not less.

Any stance one takes on other nations and people thus must depend on the way other nations and people act in the relation to one's own nation. In this context the question whether a "true nationalist can or must be pro or contra Semite or Israel" is completely irrelevant.