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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

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    I love Black Metal. I even come here to keep myself updated. But it doesn't seem like it has gained any new ground in the past few years. Metal as a whole is not as influential as it was from the 1970s through the 1990s. I talk to my younger cousin's and they have almost no interest which would make them the first generation in my family not to. Its lost a lot of its mystery. They feel that metal is played out. I kind of agree with them to a point. It no longer seems to be a movement if it ever was one. There doesn't seem to be any new boundaries to break territory to conquer. It hasn't really set many new standards of late and has come to a stall. Even more concerning is that it no longer scares the squares. If Black metal is supposed to have a positive effect on our lost youth then one of the first lessons it should teach is rebellion and I don't see a lot of resistance to the mainstream. Has its influence been reduced to preaching to the remaining converted or has it grown?

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  3. #272
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    Some people called Death metal/punk/rock "The Age of Narcissism." It symbolizes the apathy and lost cultural meaning over generations, so the "dead" effeminate appearances support the image of despair and "vampirism." I really liked the punk band, The Damned, when I was young. It may also be the youth's rebellion before conforming to the corporate world and piles of manuals. When you are much older, the lyrics just don't mean the same to the listener, but the music can still sound raw and engaging. For the audience, they were a mix of Atheists, Pagans, a few "rare" Satanists, and yes, Christians. Youths explore the bad as well as the good guy/gal roles in culture, as part of their arising development. But, the music brought people together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfram View Post
    Even more concerning is that it no longer scares the squares.
    Nothing scares anyone anymore these days. In the 90s this was different, you could still scare people simply by being dressed in all black and you didnt even have to deploy leather or spikes for that. But "shock value" has been worn thin, not by metal but by the mainstream, and everyday real violence and normalised terrorism. I guess Manson was the last one, in his early days, who could shock the American public.

    If Black metal is supposed to have a positive effect on our lost youth then one of the first lessons it should teach is rebellion and I don't see a lot of resistance to the mainstream. Has its influence been reduced to preaching to the remaining converted or has it grown?
    Black Metal always was an "underground" thing, so widespread "influence" never was a goal nor an effect. Black Metal will never fill stadiums (Gorgoroth or Satyricon maybe being the exception, and both dont here either, only in North and South America).
    Also it was always a "personal" thing, how many bands dont even publish their lyrics. Those who want to stir are far and few inbetween, like Satanic Warmaster.
    The next "problem" is that Black Metal usually comes in the band's native language, so you have Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, German, Russian, whatever, which precludes in many ways the spreading of the message, even if they have one (and many do!). But you, the listener, must engage, dig into, look around to find translations or try to "feel" the message, which is often possible, but takes time. And this is rather an audience problem. Most people expect an in-your-face message in 3 and a half minutes, the good Black Metal bands arent even done with the intro in this time though. Personally, I only listen entire albums, always. But apparently I'm also an exception in this regard, people just dont appreciate albums anymore. Which is a general society problem, people are down-educated to the attention span of a one-day fly LOL. They want to "be entertained", BM always was the wrong genre for that though. But actually, there're still thousands of bands that deliver albums with a consistent story/message, but because of that, they also remain underground.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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  5. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Nothing scares anyone anymore these days. In the 90s this was different, you could still scare people simply by being dressed in all black and you didnt even have to deploy leather or spikes for that. But "shock value" has been worn thin, not by metal but by the mainstream, and everyday real violence and normalised terrorism. I guess Manson was the last one, in his early days, who could shock the American public.



    Black Metal always was an "underground" thing, so widespread "influence" never was a goal nor an effect. Black Metal will never fill stadiums (Gorgoroth or Satyricon maybe being the exception, and both dont here either, only in North and South America).
    Also it was always a "personal" thing, how many bands dont even publish their lyrics. Those who want to stir are far and few inbetween, like Satanic Warmaster.
    The next "problem" is that Black Metal usually comes in the band's native language, so you have Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, German, Russian, whatever, which precludes in many ways the spreading of the message, even if they have one (and many do!). But you, the listener, must engage, dig into, look around to find translations or try to "feel" the message, which is often possible, but takes time. And this is rather an audience problem. Most people expect an in-your-face message in 3 and a half minutes, the good Black Metal bands arent even done with the intro in this time though. Personally, I only listen entire albums, always. But apparently I'm also an exception in this regard, people just dont appreciate albums anymore. Which is a general society problem, people are down-educated to the attention span of a one-day fly LOL. They want to "be entertained", BM always was the wrong genre for that though. But actually, there're still thousands of bands that deliver albums with a consistent story/message, but because of that, they also remain underground.
    Spikes and leather were flamer Rob Halford's LGBTQIAA cruising outfits worn by Tom of Finland fans, the Gay bears. It's a Cultural Marxist get up from the start, that they hoodwinked a lot of otherwise normal masculine blokes into perpetuating. So now, this image makes the metal scene an offshoot of Gay Pride Parades and all that's missing are the rainbow flags. Marilyn Manson and Rammstein already perform homoerotic bumping and grinding. Of course, there's an above average percentage of men with painted faces, like prostitutes and the androgenous glam factor can't be dismissed as some "mainstream" problem. This is what happens when you base your Weltanschauung on the Haight-Ashbury scene of San Francisco.

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  7. #275
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    I don't think I cannot follow your point entirely. Rammstein is a not a band that would classify as black metal, nor have they ever. They have always played with shock elements though, that's nothing new or changed. Hey, since you seem to be a music connoisseur, have you heard the HU from Mongolia ... definitely localized in their language approach ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThorvinB View Post
    I don't think I cannot follow your point entirely. Rammstein is a not a band that would classify as black metal, nor have they ever. They have always played with shock elements though, that's nothing new or changed. Hey, since you seem to be a music connoisseur, have you heard the HU from Mongolia ... definitely localized in their language approach ;-)
    I didn't address Black Metal in particular, only the general metal æsthetic and touched upon what was said about Marilyn Manson, to point out that Industrial Metal is overly fond of sadomasochism and bondage fetishes, including homoeroticism and that this is all traced back to Judas Priest being a Gay stud leather band with tonnes of fag lyrics that would make Elton John and George Michael proud. There's not much daylight between them and Liberace. Listen to these lyrics that make fun of the Village People version of metal:



    I am opposed to the Leftist Weimar Bauhaus æsthetic of the Left Hand Path. These people in most of the newer metal scene that doesn't overlap with traditional Hard Rock and romantic Neoclassical styles, are degenerate Socialists, Anarchists, Nihilists and Machiavellians. As for Mongolians trying to adapt their folk music, I have naught to say about doing so or its quality.

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    I remember in the mid 70's that glam rock bands like New York Dolls, Bowie, Iggy Pop, and Cooper dressed in drag or leather-studded outfits. You can tell that some guys worked out behind the drag dressing, but the music was rebellious being the first "queer" acts on stage. If you read their older interviews, they challenged the gender dress codes, and some were "bisexual." New York Dolls were full drag too. As a kid, it did seem odd from men to abandon their masculine dress for drag queen styles, but I thought they did it more for shock value. 70's overall had a heavy drug-using culture among musicians too. I never thought the gay scene 30 years later would have become a political rights movement from rock n roll to LGBTQ.

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    I don’t really think it’s a relevant question anymore. Black metal and its subculture has no presence. Maybe in Scandinavia, but I don’t know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterland View Post
    I remember in the mid 70's that glam rock bands like New York Dolls, Bowie, Iggy Pop, and Cooper dressed in drag or leather-studded outfits. You can tell that some guys worked out behind the drag dressing, but the music was rebellious being the first "queer" acts on stage. If you read their older interviews, they challenged the gender dress codes, and some were "bisexual." New York Dolls were full drag too. As a kid, it did seem odd from men to abandon their masculine dress for drag queen styles, but I thought they did it more for shock value. 70's overall had a heavy drug-using culture among musicians too. I never thought the gay scene 30 years later would have become a political rights movement from rock n roll to LGBTQ.
    Long scalp hair is only good on men with facial hair and bell bottoms are worn by sailors in crackerjack uniform; neither is effeminate in and of themselves, yet excessive devotion to appearance is unmanliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by leRoux View Post
    I don’t really think it’s a relevant question anymore. Black metal and its subculture has no presence. Maybe in Scandinavia, but I don’t know.
    In Norway, these lunatics burn stavekirks that are the closest to Heathen hofs and disparage fylke music of the Fjords as alien, simpleton culture imposed by Christianity. They want dog-eat-dog and murdering friends over ideology instead. How self-destructive it all is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall
    In Norway, these lunatics burn stavekirks that are the closest to Heathen hofs and disparage fylke music of the Fjords as alien, simpleton culture imposed by Christianity. They want dog-eat-dog and murdering friends over ideology instead. How self-destructive it all is.
    Nobody does that in Norway any more. Black metal has become mainstream, with TV awards, the vocalist of Satyricon launching his own brand of red wine. He even has a personal stylist.
    Nothing is provocative about black metal anymore. Many of the people involved in the scene are leftists. Black metal was supposed to be about individualism and hierarchy. There's a lot of drinking and drugs.

    I like the music, but I don't care much for the scene. Perhaps one positive thing that could be said about is it has gotten a lot of people interested in folk lore, traditions, history and stuff related to that. But they shouldn't swallow up everything Varg says.

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