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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    So that is a reason to kill someone? Because he owed money and was a bad business man. He also owed money to Metalion and others, so they should have killed him? Metalion even financed much of the recording of Deathcrush and Euronymous couldn't afford to repay him so he just gave him some copies of the record instead {about 100-150 I think}
    We weren't discussing the reason why he was killed but the fact he ripped people of or owned people money. By giving Metalion some copies of Deathcrush he got his money back in one way or another.
    Stick to point otherwise this discussion is going to be endless and leads to nowhere. Besides this, money wasn't the reason for Varg to kill Oystein.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Of course, but the fact remains that Euronymous had a radical vision for what he wanted Black Metal to be and he was a unique individual for his time, those in the underground who knew him will fully agree.
    I said, it took other things aswell other then tapetrading and writing letters only. In the beginning he was unique maybe but he kind of lost control when others were doing more radical things. It was bound to happen that bubble bursted sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    I don't think that Pelle hated Nihilist. Morbid was basically a part of the same wave as bands like Nihilist Mefisto Obscurity Merciless and Sorcery. They hated Entombed and this was mainly because Left Hand Path had opened the gates for all the shit Swedish clone bands of the Sunlight studios variety to explode onto the scene.
    Is it good reason to hate an album because others decide copy it. No. One should point their finger at those clone bands instead of a good album. That happens all the time. Look at the Grieghallen Studios in Bergen. Even Darkthrone recorded in the Sunlight Studios. Morbid recorded one of their demo's their and the debut of Tiamat was even recorded there before Entombed did.
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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granraude View Post
    Creator? Not really. Darkthrone coined the sound.
    To use a suitable word: True. So true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radulfr View Post
    Morbid Angel and Deicide are Death Metal with anti-christian/Satanic lyrics no matter what people try to imply. Did they ever said that they are playing Black Metal? No. Oystein said once that Deicide were BM but this not true and a good way to make the scene bigger as it was back then. But it is a silly remark to begin with.
    Get out your Altars of Madness record and read who the album is dedicted to. Black metal fans is written. Deicide and Morbid Angel are Death Metal bands, no one is denying that because musically they are death, but they are also black metal because of the lyrics. Look at early Acheron, they are Death Metal but on the early albums they also say that they are black metal.

    Jon of Dissection never said they were Black Metal and musical wise they were pretty unique and did not fit into anywhere and couldn't be compared to any other band. Maybe with At The Gates. They were the unique combination of Heavy/Death/Black Metal. Lyrical wise they were Satanic in a very serious way maybe more then the actual Black Metal bands ever were
    .

    Yes Dissection were unique musically but that is another topic, it doesn't matter how they were musically, they were satanic and they were a metal band, so they were black metal. Jon played it down for obvious reasons, because he didn't want to associate Dissection with the pathetic 'black' metal trend. In the early days he did say they were black metal.
    I class Dissection more with bands like Treblinka Grotesque Merciless and Morbid than with the melodic trend Gothenburg shit which came later, even though Dissection influenced the Gothenburg sound.

    And then you mentioned Venom; well, I mentioned that in a previous post in reaction to Velvet. Except for the album title they were merely speeded punk rock with Motorhead influences
    Well Venom started the whole thing and if not for Welcome to Hell there would be no black metal. Just imagine if you were around in 1981 and heard it, you would shit youself, like many people at that time. I know because my cousin bought that record in late 81 early 82 and people were shocked, even so called headbangers.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radulfr View Post
    We weren't discussing the reason why he was killed but the fact he ripped people of or owned people money. By giving Metalion some copies of Deathcrush he got his money back in one way or another.
    Stick to point otherwise this discussion is going to be endless and leads to nowhere. Besides this, money wasn't the reason for Varg to kill Oystein.

    Whatever the reason was it was stupid in my opinion. there was no need to kilol him.


    I said, it took other things aswell other then tapetrading and writing letters only. In the beginning he was unique maybe but he kind of lost control when others were doing more radical things. It was bound to happen that bubble bursted sooner or later
    .

    Well too many people didn't keep their mouths shut, that was the problem, but this was because these were all very young folks at the time with no criminal experience.


    Is it good reason to hate an album because others decide copy it. No. One should point their finger at those clone bands instead of a good album. That happens all the time. Look at the Grieghallen Studios in Bergen. Even Darkthrone recorded in the Sunlight Studios. Morbid recorded one of their demo's their and the debut of Tiamat was even recorded there before Entombed did
    Well yes but again history showed us that Entombed were shit because of what they turned into which just goes to show that they were never real Death, unlike a band like Deicide who never sold out.
    And I prefer the first Deicide, Nocturnus- The Key, Merciless- The Awakening, Blasphemy- Fallen Angel of Doom from the year 1990 to Left Hand Path, always have.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Whatever the reason was it was stupid in my opinion. there was no need to kilol him.
    No one but Varg knows for sure. He himself says it was self defence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Not Kreator/Tormentor although their early stuff was evil just like like Sodom's debut EP. I was thinking of Hungary's black metal cult Tormentor.
    I never mentioned Kreator -_-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granraude View Post
    No one but Varg knows for sure. He himself says it was self defence.
    Yeah we believe that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granraude View Post
    Creator? Not really. Darkthrone coined the sound.
    OK now I understand. Well Darkthrone dedicated Blaze to the King of Norwegian Black Metal. Euronymous pushed them to play in that way so he is responsible for Darkthrone ditching their Entombed sound and going in a more sinister black direction. And anyway the necro 'sound' is present already on the live Mayhem bootlegs and live in Leipzig which was before A Blaze was recorded.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Get out your Altars of Madness record and read who the album is dedicted to. Black metal fans is written. Deicide and Morbid Angel are Death Metal bands, no one is denying that because musically they are death, but they are also black metal because of the lyrics. Look at early Acheron, they are Death Metal but on the early albums they also say that they are black metal.
    Because of the lyrics they are considered Satanic. Not black Metal. That would be more fair to say. Satanic doesn't automatically Black Metal.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Well Venom started the whole thing and if not for Welcome to Hell there would be no black metal. Just imagine if you were around in 1981 and heard it, you would shit youself, like many people at that time. I know because my cousin bought that record in late 81 early 82 and people were shocked, even so called headbangers.
    "Just imagine if you were around in 1981 and heard it"? I don't have to "imagine" that my friend cause I was around back then and the album was impressive indeed. But you know what, there was NO Black Metal scene then. It was just viewed one of the first extreme bands around back then.
    You said that without Venom there would be no Black Metal. I think Bathory's first 3 albums more or less paved the way for the second wave of Black Metal then Venom did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radulfr View Post
    Because of the lyrics they are considered Satanic. Not black Metal. That would be more fair to say. Satanic doesn't automatically Black Metal.
    But is says 'this record is dedicated to speed death black metal fans everywhere'. This was a time when the lines between black death thrash were still blurred so it is black metal. If you listen to old stuff like Slaughter Lord and Necrovore you see what I mean, all these groups were black metal bands, regardless of what people raised on the trend and internet downloads think.

    Also Satanic doesnt automatically mean blcak metal because you can have a satanic rock band that sounds something like old American psychedelic rock band Coven, they were not metal, but if the band plays metal and they are satanic than it is black metal no matter what anyone says.




    I don't have to "imagine" that my friend cause I was around back then and the album was impressive indeed. But you know what, there was NO Black Metal scene then. It was just viewed one of the first extreme bands around back then.
    Good that you were around then. There was no black metal 'scene' but there was dark themed metal like Angelwitch, Black Rose {King Diamond's old band which for me is black metal} Demon, etc and I would say that Death SS was black metal in the late 70's. And it was more than just extreme because you had Discharge who were sonically also extreme but people were not afraid of them. Venom were what they were because of the full on lyrics which no one had done like that before in addition to the fast ripping music.



    You said that without Venom there would be no Black Metal. I think Bathory's first 3 albums more or less paved the way for the second wave of Black Metal then Venom did
    Yes they did but without the trio from Newcastle Quorthon would probably have made Bathory sound like those filthy kikes Kiss.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    But is says 'this record is dedicated to speed death black metal fans everywhere'. This was a time when the lines between black death thrash were still blurred so it is black metal. If you listen to old stuff like Slaughter Lord and Necrovore you see what I mean, all these groups were black metal bands, regardless of what people raised on the trend and internet downloads think.
    With a "thank you" statement like that they did not meant to label themselves as Black Metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmrs View Post
    Yes they did but without the trio from Newcastle Quorthon would probably have made Bathory sound like those filthy kikes Kiss.
    Like Kiss? Really? Do you think that? Quorthon was playing in some punk and OI bands before he started Bathory. Stridskuk is one of these bands. So I highly doubt it that he degenerated himself to the low life level of Kiss although I have to admit that seeing Gene Simmons in full gear when I was 4 or 5 was pretty scary/impressive. So much for the theatrics.

    As for the actual topic of this thread; do you have an opinion about that? All this discussion about Black and Death Metal, Oystein and Varg actually belongs in another thread I think.
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