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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

  1. #61
    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
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    What's so germanic about the black metal "culture"?
    Many of the people drink two days each weekend, take drugs etc.
    But it is good that it has helped some people discover a interest in their ancestors. But many of the black metal people I know dosnt care much about it, and I live in Norway, in a city filled with bands and metalheads.
    Im a long time member on Norway's largest metalforum, and most of the members vote for socialist parties and is against rascism and eat kebab after they have been drinking in the weekends etc. Wouldnt view those people as my allies.

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    Senior Member Schönenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    For me, Black Metal is a spiritual thing
    I would be interested to hear how you view and reconcile this spirituality of which you speak with the atheism in your signature? Do you call yourself an atheist who is also spiritual? I would be interested to hear your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    But this is MY Black Metal, Dietsch will have another Black Metal and Sigurd and Ronan will have their own Black Metal too. People keep trying to tell me what Black Metal is or is not, people on top who at best heard some songs on youtube and keep denouncing black metal as such for being arsonist, when it was one guy alone who once burnt a church, 18 years ago. So please, stop that nonsense, okay. It gets tiresome.
    Hopefully my last post didn't provoke. I'm not sure who you feel hates you or denies you, but I certainly don't. I get along fine with many from the BM/Goth crowds. My own sphere is within classical & metal, so we can both appreciate metal, European aesthetics, etc. Metal is a pretty big "family" so there is room for mutual respect there. You and other BM'ers are a part of today's cultural scene and you have a natural right to assert yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    For me, Black Metal is a spiritual thing, it is my personal way of dealing with myself and the world, MY Black Metal is heathen in its nature, it breathes Germanic spirits and spirituality with every single note of it, and it is a trancendental force. Black Metal is the soundtrack to Blut und Boden.
    I fully respect that. I respect your right to your own art and your emotions. And I am not denying technical complexity on certain levels. I was simply pointing out certain artificial parts of the picture when it comes to performance. That does not change the end result for those that enjoy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Originally Posted by velvet
    For myself is to say that I wear black exclusively since I was like 12 or 13 or something. It is just what I like, and I dont feel good when I'm dressed like a clown or a parrot. It's just not me. This counts for many people, for goths as well, when it is not just a phase for them. It is an inner demand.
    For many people it is only a phase. Others stay on the scene longer, and yet others again stay in it for life. A majority will always be less faithful when the glory days are over, and a smaller minority will stay on loyally for life. That goes for all sociocultural movements. It all depends on how strong a person's emotional needs are for this particular type of cultural expression, how much of their identity lies in this art form. All niches are specialized genres and the more extreme the clique is, the smaller a minority the clique will belong to. This is not good/bad situation, its just the nature of social demographics. There are also advantages for smaller cliques, they can feel tighter and provide a stronger emotional home for those who feel misplaced or awkward in mainstream areas of society.
    "Att motverka antigermanismen genom att värna germanska folk, traditioner och ideal handlar inte bara om grundläggande mänskliga rättigheter. Det handlar i slutändan om att rädda mänskligheten."

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    Senior Member Ward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Venom is not black metal. Venom is death metal.

    Just keep portraying yourself as complete ignorant
    Oh dear. I hate to make you look bad, but...

    In 1982, Venom released an album entitled "Black Metal," which "would become influential and definitive enough to describe an entire subgenre called black metal. The nature of Venom's high-pitch guitars, harsh vocals, use of pseudonyms, and unrelenting emphasis on Satanic lyrics and imagery is considered the template for the subgenre's later successes, and arguably for the broader extreme metal movement in general."

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Of course we are very aware of the effects we cause with our looks in other people. In my last job training people asked me whether it would be possible to dress a bit more positive, not always black, even though I didnt wear shocking band shirts there. Pretty normal stuff, jeans and shirt, just black, and people perceived me as an 'negative' or discomforting element around them, I have also made the experience that people feel 'threatened' through that. But I think it is the problem of the people. They are so superficial that they are put off by a color.
    I dont consider that negative, quite the opposite. I dont get bothered by them.
    Sorry, but I don't think it's their problem. How an individual dresses says a lot about that person, especially when at work. It's an indicator for matters such as personal hygene and the willingness of a person to fit into the company culture.

    You're conforming to the weird, anti-social fashion trends of a sub-genre of music and allowing it define your entire sense of identity and the way others perceive you, so you shouldn't be surprised when you're prejudged. When you're at work, you're there to work, not to engage in juvenile forms of "self-expression."

  4. #64
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    I've listened to metal for years. I've had long hair, I've had short hair, I've had no hair - I've never, even when I had long hair, looked steriotypically 'metal'. I've always worn the clothes that keep me warm and comfortable.

    I think categorising black metal with emphasis on imagery is, in 2010, a much too simplistic interpratation. In 1991 it was very much aesthetic, but today? Nah, not so much.

    The sound? There is so much room for variation! There are similarities, sure, but I wouldn't say Ars Diavoli sound like Ildjarn, and I wouldn't say Mgla sound like Taake. And none of them really sound like Hellhammer, Bulldozer or Venom!

    Whether black metal is a positive influence or not, I'm not sure. I think it was Nathan Weaver from Wolves in the Throne Room who had said, during an interview, that the 'chaos', venom and nihilism represented by traditional black metal should act only as the starting point that triggers a catharsis - the 'angst' or whatever you want to call it is the purging and the 'revaluation of all values', the emptying of the cup if you will, leaving you with room for a continous spiritual growth.

    I used to listen to black metal - I don't so much anymore. I didn't even know what the term 'Germanic' meant before I had listened to black metal - I thank it for pointing me in the right direction.

    Make of that what you will - I think black metal is a much better influence than rap.

  5. #65
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schoenenbourg
    I would be interested to hear how you view and reconcile this spirituality of which you speak with the atheism in your signature? Do you call yourself an atheist who is also spiritual? I would be interested to hear your reply.
    The atheist part refers to the judeo-christian / semitic god. It is a sardonic abuse of christian language who called our heathen ancestors unbelievers and godless people, atheists.
    Else I identify as Heathen, although I would like to stress that it is much more a state of mind than a religion. My spirituality thus is Heathen in nature, without that I would be utterly 'religious'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Schoenenbourg
    Hopefully my last post didn't provoke. I'm not sure who you feel hates you or denies you, but I certainly don't. I get along fine with many from the BM/Goth crowds. My own sphere is within classical & metal, so we can both appreciate metal, European aesthetics, etc. Metal is a pretty big "family" so there is room for mutual respect there. You and other BM'ers are a part of today's cultural scene and you have a natural right to assert yourself.
    No, you didnt provoke. The ones meant with bm-haters will know who they are

    But I dont really associate with the scene, which is largy nonexistent where I live anyway. The association happens to selected individuals and likewise selected art. And even if I highly appreciate the art, it long doesnt mean that I would want to associate with the people who created it, for a variety of reasons.

    Although I'm a bit hmm, surprised/confused about your socio-psychological analysis, I dont disagree basically with that. As long as you keep an open mind that I'm not necessarily an example of that
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
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  6. #66
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    In 1982, Venom released an album entitled "Black Metal," which "would become influential and definitive enough to describe an entire subgenre called black metal. The nature of Venom's high-pitch guitars, harsh vocals, use of pseudonyms, and unrelenting emphasis on Satanic lyrics and imagery is considered the template for the subgenre's later successes, and arguably for the broader extreme metal movement in general."

    The album "black metal" by venom is not a black metal album. It's a thrash/death metal album with satanic lyrics. It few things in common with black metal music, both composition and atmosphere are way different. To anyone having the slightest clue about what black-, thrash-, and death metal is, the statement you quoted is very obviously false.

    The only thing that album has to do with BM is that it gave inspiration for the name. That, and satanic lyrics (which isn't a necessary part of black metal, fyi), I'll give you that. But Venom didn't create black metal, they only inspired it, just like the Rolling Stones inspired modern metal music.

    Bathory by Bathory was the first black metal album.
    "Lever dot as slav."

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    Senior Member Schönenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    The album "black metal" by venom is not a black metal album. It's a thrash/death metal album with satanic lyrics. It few things in common with black metal music, both composition and atmosphere are way different. To anyone having the slightest clue about what black-, thrash-, and death metal is, the statement you quoted is very obviously false.

    The only thing that album has to do with BM is that it gave inspiration for the name. That, and satanic lyrics (which isn't a necessary part of black metal, fyi), I'll give you that. But Venom didn't create black metal, they only inspired it, just like the Rolling Stones inspired modern metal music.

    Bathory by Bathory was the first black metal album.
    100% correct. Just bear in mind one thing. Even though Venom and the album "BM" isn't "Black Metal" by today's standards, their style were clearly referred to as "Black Metal" by the magazines already then 82-83, (way before Bathory broke), on the strength of that album. I remember it well... So there has definitely been a semantic shift in the term itself since the early to mid eighties.
    "Att motverka antigermanismen genom att värna germanska folk, traditioner och ideal handlar inte bara om grundläggande mänskliga rättigheter. Det handlar i slutändan om att rädda mänskligheten."

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    Senior Member Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Just to set the record straight, Venom were/are the originators of black metal. Sorry if some of you don't agree with this, but I was buying their vinyl releases when they were originally coming out, and can tell with 100% certainty that there was no black metal out there before Welcome To Hell.

    As for the death metal genre, that was the creation of Tom Warrior of Hellhammer. Again, some of you may have a difference of opinion regarding this, but I was listening to all this stuff when it was first coming out, so I know very well who was doing what and when.

  9. #69
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Wasn't there a reason why the one thing is called first wave bm and the other second wave?

    The two have only little in common, and I personally refer to black metal in terms of the second wave, starting out with Bathory and then in Norway around 89/90, what came to be there.

    This actually was a counterreaction to the mainstream metal back then, the entire extreme metal scene has become mainstream and sterile. And the influence via the hardcore/breakcore/punk and even dark wave on the second wave stuff should neither be overseen. There was a whole new approach to metal music.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Could some BM fan explain the Germanicness of BM compared to the Germanicness of all the other metal genres?

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