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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

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    Senior Member Schönenburg's Avatar
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    New right thinkers like Alex Kurtagic certainly think Black Metal is a positive white consciousness. Me, I agree in part. But it's important to weigh both the strengths and limitations of cultural trends such as Black Metal.

    First are the positive sides. There is always a powerful force in bonding young whites together with a common imagery. I do not deny that, neither do I deny the powerful imagery of seeing old NS films. It's not about Nazism or supporting everything the Nazis did, it's about the most forceful and iconic examples of Germanic affirmation every witnessed in the modern age. That image will never be forgotten, just reinterpreted with the times. It is already happening. I guarantee, within one half to one generation, the discussion will be much more open regarding NS Germany, The Allies, Israel, Hitler etc. This is a precursor to true white social awakening.

    Bearing this in mind, Black Metal can be viewed as a substitute for nascent white consciousness. The same goes for classical/classic metal. We all know, instinctively that this is our music. The Germanic-Celtic spirit of freedom runs very strongly through it. Go to for instance, an Iron Maiden concert sometime and you will know exactly what I mean. At least if you are an European. You know. Kevin MacDonald and Occidental Observer has written articles about this and I would say they are pretty accurate social observations. Music teachers need to instill pride and awareness of their heritage and history of Europe in pupils who are into metal, black or otherwise. That is always the first step to eventual white awakening, the knowledge that they exist as a people and that have a heritage that they are living in - by virtue of their musical choices. Teachers must also expose the pupils to the classics - both classic metal , the roots of their modern black metal, and classical music, the peak of white western culture. By doing that you will sow the seeds of future white social awareness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anlef View Post
    That's why I find it disgusting how many self-styled heathens vent their spleen on Christians. Devout Christians have been keeping the traditions alive for centuries. Among the ethnically aware Germanics many are devout Christians. We're in the process of being overrun by hordes of foreigners, mostly invited by Marxists and liberals, who assert themselves violently, and all these so-called heathens can do is kick the Christian. They pick Christians because these turn the other cheek. (Christians turn the other cheek not because they are weak, but because they are strong. They can take a hit or two, before fighting back. They don't "sing" whiny "songs" about being hit, nor do they resort to ridiculous outfitting.) "But so many Christians are multiculturalists!" Yes, and so are many, many atheists, agnostics and heathens.
    Yes. I know several Asatruers and Odinists and Atheists here in Scandinavia who are convinced multicultis. Therefore, "let's crush heathenism, Asatru and atheism"... Right?

    Wrong, of course. And neither will Christianity be crushed, because liberals have hijacked and politicized it. These are different sides of white existence. Eventually, Heathens will need to start working together with Christian/cultural Christians. And vice versa - Christians will have to start to working with odinists and atheists for the common cause - our survival as a people. Once BM'ers start fighting against Christianity, burning churches, harassing Christians etc they are fighting their common white folk, they are fighting own compatriots. And that's where they become counterproductive to white social struggle. They become a clear anti-white force.

    True Germanicism is about connecting with our common folkish spirit, it is about bonding our peoples together, That means melody, harmony and power, its all part of our common mythos. If you want to connect the whole of Germanic peoples you need to reach their souls with Germanic-Celtic melodicism. Something you can sing and return to, time and time again. Something to connect you with your past and eternal Germanic soul. Something to instill joy and pride in you. It goes without saying that BM does none of this.

    Extreme provocation does not bond people together, it becomes intentionally divisive. This is simply the nature of how we humans react to acoustic stimuli. Black Metal is the opposite of folkishness, of commonality, because it, as punk and metal before, is all about margins and defined age brackets - it's youthful rebellion against authority. As such it has a power. Just don't harbor any illusions about starting any mass movements with such an extreme form of music. BM is, by it's virtue of it's own extreme attributes belonging to the margins of cultural life. It will never become mainstream. If it became mainstream, it would lose all its power. That is why BM is a product of the modern disaffected society, not the Germanic traditions.

    Another point on the connection between BM and the modern artificial world. why BM and Death Metal is part of the modern artificial landscape, is it's own artificial nature. As someone intimately familiar with the production side of music, BM is one of the most artificial and, faked music genres out there, apart from mainstream rnb, chart pop etc.

    The aggression and disaffection with society was already there in the traditional, classic metal. But traditional metal was more in tune with human nature and the human spirit because of one simple fact: It was being created and performed by humans - not by samples, drum triggers and studio tricks. If studio insiders were to relay to you stories of just how poor some of these musicians really were, how badly thee source recordings sounded, before the studio fakers and pro-tools digital surgical fixes had to be applied, many would be shocked. This was not the case with traditional metal. The musician had to know ho to pay, or else they were out the door. That was a meritocratic system, and it worked. Because it kept the musical expression and performance real. Human. That means it was still able to connect with the regular person. Regular listeners react most sympathetically with expressions created by humans, not machines. because they are humans themselves and will make an emotional connection. This new system of anti-meritocratic mechanism is a function of the virtual/digital technology, which is why I make the case that BM is part of that same artificial world. Because they themselves are artificial when it comes to how they present themselves when recording. What you hear is not how they really sound. Every record producer who has ever worked with BM/DM producer knows this. And not only studio, you talk to any live audio engineer for BM bands and they know what I'm talking about. This is not any moral judgment of good or bad, simply an statement of the current situation. Its all part of the artificiality of modern existence.

    Because of its musical and aesthetical character, BM will always remain a marginal hinterland phenomenon. Marginal phenomena will never connect to the broad cores of Germanic peoples and nations. Therefore, by virtue of these characteristics, the power of BM for a new white re-awakening will always be limited. Proud followers of BM of course know this instinctively since they are by their own definition rebellion and anti-mainstream. They take pride in it. Therefore by extension they are also in certain aspects working against the common man and the things that binds us all together. In these aspects BM is counterproductive to the coming white renaissance.

    But as one of many forces binding white youths together, BM serves a purpose. It is so far, one of few musical genres that has dares to openly tread into pro-white waters. And given enough time, it will spill over into the mainstream.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anlef View Post
    I find it hilarious that of all people Black Metal enthusiasts speak of the degeneration of modern society. If anything, they are the historical oddity, they are degenerate with their ridiculous outfits and their "music".
    Yes, they are the symbol of modern degeneracy. But therefore they play a role too, you see. You have to look at where this anger and disaffection comes from. These are people on the margins, often let down by modern society. They are revealing something to us about modern society and how it chokes off our true identity, character, life and honor. They are expressing and channeling all these dysfunctional emotions through their art and that is important. In that sense, BM is carries value to us all, as a barometer of what parts of society needs corrective measures. These are people who in a different era might well have been productive, prominent members of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anlef View Post
    Our heathen ancestors wore colourful clothes, the women looking especially graceful, with jewellery and braids and what not. They played tunes on flutes, harps, lyres and horns and had jolly drinking songs. Their art depicted the liveliness found in nature, with animal motifs and knot-work (resembling if anything the roots of trees); it wasn't about death and destruction.
    Yes. Remember also that BM shows us one narrow side of reality and nature. The darker side, death and destruction. That side is out there in nature as well. Followers of BM for some reason, relate easier to these dark energies and attributes. That tells us something important about modernist society.
    "Att motverka antigermanismen genom att värna germanska folk, traditioner och ideal handlar inte bara om grundläggande mänskliga rättigheter. Det handlar i slutändan om att rädda mänskligheten."

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Hate, wrath, despise, ... are also emotions.
    That doesn't mean one should let go of the reins. Temperance has always been a virtue. It can be found in Tacitus' description of our heathen ancestors, it can be found in the old Icelandic Saga's, it was vital in the Hellenic societies, and it is considered cardinal by the Catholic Church. That many have failed to live up to it, or were even hypocrites about it, doesn't make temperance less of a virtue. It is about an ideal, and no man is ideal; one can only strive. To abolish the striving altogether is to give up, and is a most modern thing to do.

  3. #53
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anlef
    That doesn't mean one should let go of the reins. Temperance has always been a virtue. It can be found in Tacitus' description of our heathen ancestors, it can be found in the old Icelandic Saga's, it was vital in the Hellenic societies, and it is considered cardinal by the Catholic Church. That many have failed to live up to it, or were even hypocrites about it, doesn't make temperance less of a virtue. It is about an ideal, and no man is ideal; one can only strive. To abolish the striving altogether is to give up, and is a most modern thing to do.
    You see, one thing that devides us on that matter is my opinion that we will reach nothing when we try to copy, blindly and one to one, a world and mindsets of thousand or twothousand years ago.

    I think we must transcent above that, through that, to become one with ourselves TODAY, not as you imagine the world was like millenia ago.

    For me, Black Metal is a spiritual thing, it is my personal way of dealing with myself and the world, MY Black Metal is heathen in its nature, it breathes Germanic spirits and spirituality with every single note of it, and it is a trancendental force. Black Metal is the soundtrack to Blut und Boden.

    But this is MY Black Metal, Dietsch will have another Black Metal and Sigurd and Ronan will have their own Black Metal too. People keep trying to tell me what Black Metal is or is not, people on top who at best heard some songs on youtube and keep denouncing black metal as such for being arsonist, when it was one guy alone who once burnt a church, 18 years ago. So please, stop that nonsense, okay. It gets tiresome.

    I cannot explain with words to you what BM means to me unless you've never experienced this yourself. It is just not possible. And it doesnt have any purpose either. Whatever I say you bm-haters will get the words wrong anyway, either because you're really unable to understand their meaning in the context of BM / ideology or because you want to misunderstand them. And on some comments I cant ignore the intention to pick up words to pull out of context, not necessarily from you but others.

    You see, MY black metal is a trancendent form of classic music (not classic rock'n'roll or classic metal) with complex structures and a lot of mystic and spirituality and emotions. MY black metal is not artificial, triggered or electronic made, MY black metal is the most real form of music, that doesnt even get largely 'produced', but left raw and unpolished. Yet, MY black metal offers the most beautiful melodies I can imagine.

    You will not agree, and that is fine with me. Black Metal is an antagonistic force to everything you believe in, and that we two dont share much of opinion about anything you should also know meanwhile. Black Metal is not made for you. I just dont get why people who are not the target audience of Black Metal want to judge about something that is neither made for them nor in any form comprehensible for them due to their different stance on everything.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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  4. #54
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    Well velvet there's nothing wrong that BM suits you as a person and your feelings, but beforehand it seemed as you were talking about "us" (BMers) vs. "them" (non-BMers). I got the impression you said everyone who does not appreciate BM are "average humans", freaks, and somewhat stupid. You generalized just as much about us who do not like BM as some of us did about BM people.

    But no, black metal is not supposed to sound dark or evil, it is just an emotional path which most people dont dare to go; your 'negative' emotions are as much part of yourself as your 'light' ones are. But while you try to reject them or cover them, we embrace them as part of ourselves.

    The problem why you (the average human) consider it 'dark' and uncomfortable is because you consider the transmitted emotions 'dark' and negative, and because you fear your own emotions. We dont.
    Just a side question for you velvet: Do you reject your positive emotions?

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Well velvet there's nothing wrong that BM suits you as a person and your feelings, but beforehand it seemed as you were talking about "us" (BMers) vs. "them" (non-BMers). I got the impression you said everyone who does not appreciate BM are "average humans", freaks, and somewhat stupid. You generalized just as much about us who do not like BM as some of us did about BM people.
    Well, to be honest, when someone rides with joy on every cliche he's ever heard about black metal that are in large parts wrong on top, then indeed I consider this person a moron. Sorry

    It is fine when you dont like BM, but you keep judging about the people. People you dont know, and people who are not like anyone you know.

    And yes, to a certain degree I speak for black metal as such. I've contacts and friends throughout Europe who for the most parts share my views on black metal. People who MAKE black metal, not only consumers.

    I am aware that there are also other sorts of black metal people, bands and consumers, who do not share my views or only on a very limited base. But this is not MY black metal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Just a side question for you velvet: Do you reject your positive emotions?
    No, why should I?
    I just dont reject the 'negative' ones either. They are as much part of me as my positive ones are. And honestly, I wouldnt want to label wrath, desperation, hate or whatever as generally negative. A feeling of love can get you into real trouble just as much as uncontrolled wrath can - or safe your life. It all depends on the situation.
    I just want these emotions to be a conscious part of myself too, which in normal life they mostly arent.

    This is part of my worldview that everything is a duality. 'Positive' or 'negative' is a judgement, just like 'good' and 'evil', black and white or whatever are, along with their 'teached' associations. I reject these concepts, I dont think the world would be a better place without any 'evil' or 'negativity', I consider such a singular world the most evil place to live in. The cosmos was born through resistance of two antagonistic forces, and everything that is within, and so are we. To reject any part of myself would bring me out of balance.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    With a positive feeling, I mean one that brings you happiness, a negative one brings you grief. I don't think love itself can be negative, but yes it can lead to other feelings such as jelaously and sadness (=negative). However, I do not say that those feelings are "wrong" or should be forbidden.

    It is fine when you dont like BM, but you keep judging about the people. People you dont know, and people who are not like anyone you know.
    But why do you still keep judging non-BM people and generalize? You say, that someone that doesn't listen to BM can't be like a person that listens to BM, why?

    And by the way, how much of BM is just pure shallow imagery? Can a person with a suit and water-combed hair be BM just like those that dress differently? Just curious about that.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    With a positive feeling, I mean one that brings you happiness, a negative one brings you grief. I don't think love itself can be negative, but yes it can lead to other feelings such as jelaously and sadness (=negative). However, I do not say that those feelings are "wrong" or should be forbidden.
    What makes you think that hate or wrath or desperation packed into music bring me grief? Dont think I said that anywhere


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    But why do you still keep judging non-BM people and generalize? You say, that someone that doesn't listen to BM can't be like a person that listens to BM, why?
    I said that you dont know anyone who is like the people I call my friends. This is a difference.
    I never said that non-BM people cant be also like that. But my experience is that there are not many of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    And by the way, how much of BM is just pure shallow imagery? Can a person with a suit and water-combed hair be BM just like those that dress differently? Just curious about that.
    I dont think so. Beyond the superficial 'dress code' there is a reason why people disassociate through their look from the normal world.
    For myself is to say that I wear black exclusively since I was like 12 or 13 or something. It is just what I like, and I dont feel good when I'm dressed like a clown or a parrot. It's just not me. This counts for many people, for goths as well, when it is not just a phase for them. It is an inner demand.

    Of course we are very aware of the effects we cause with our looks in other people. In my last job training people asked me whether it would be possible to dress a bit more positive, not always black, even though I didnt wear shocking band shirts there. Pretty normal stuff, jeans and shirt, just black, and people perceived me as an 'negative' or discomforting element around them, I have also made the experience that people feel 'threatened' through that. But I think it is the problem of the people. They are so superficial that they are put off by a color.
    I dont consider that negative, quite the opposite. I dont get bothered by them.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    What makes you think that hate or wrath or desperation packed into music bring me grief? Dont think I said that anywhere
    Well music usually affects me that way, What a person sings about is applied to me, sometimes more sometimes less. But maybe BM music does not deal so much grief as I thought earlier.


    I said that you dont know anyone who is like the people I call my friends. This is a difference.
    I never said that non-BM people cant be also like that. But my experience is that there are not many of them.
    Well I don't know your friends, but theortically, I could know someone like them even though I am not BM.

    I dont think so. Beyond the superficial 'dress code' there is a reason why people disassociate through their look from the normal world.
    For myself is to say that I wear black exclusively since I was like 12 or 13 or something. It is just what I like, and I dont feel good when I'm dressed like a clown or a parrot. It's just not me. This counts for many people, for goths as well, when it is not just a phase for them. It is an inner demand.

    Of course we are very aware of the effects we cause with our looks in other people. In my last job training people asked me whether it would be possible to dress a bit more positive, not always black, even though I didnt wear shocking band shirts there. Pretty normal stuff, jeans and shirt, just black, and people perceived me as an 'negative' or discomforting element around them, I have also made the experience that people feel 'threatened' through that. But I think it is the problem of the people. They are so superficial that they are put off by a color.
    I dont consider that negative, quite the opposite. I dont get bothered by them.
    I get the impression many youths dress in dark clothes today, whether they like heavy metal, black metal, goth music or any of the others. I think most adults are used to that look nowadays actually.
    Ironically, a reason for this could be that we are told to be open to "alternaitve peoples", be it foreigners, EMOs, gays or anything. I don't say BMs are gay but you get what I mean by that. Modern society is actually more open to BM people, than society 50 years ago was. Just as it is to gays. But you wish society would treat you like you would have been treated 100 years ago?

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Well music usually affects me that way, What a person sings about is applied to me, sometimes more sometimes less. But maybe BM music does not deal so much grief as I thought earlier.
    Carried emotions in black metal are meant to be cathartic, it is a spiritual quest to transcent them into something meaningful for yourself.
    Other people meditate, I listen to black metal. The effect though is similar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Well I don't know your friends, but theortically, I could know someone like them even though I am not BM.
    If you would know such a person, you wouldnt have that much difficulties to put me into one of your drawers

    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    I get the impression many youths dress in dark clothes today, whether they like heavy metal, black metal, goth music or any of the others. I think most adults are used to that look nowadays actually.
    Ironically, a reason for this could be that we are told to be open to "alternaitve peoples", be it foreigners, EMOs, gays or anything. I don't say BMs are gay but you get what I mean by that. Modern society is actually more open to BM people, than society 50 years ago was. Just as it is to gays.
    It is true that we stick out less due to all sorts of subcultures. But I think the incident in my job training, and I have made such experiences many times before, is telling in so far that we still get registered more intense, due to the black.


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    But you wish society would treat you like you would have been treated 100 years ago?
    100 years back people would ask me whether I am a grieving widow

    Other than that, I dont wish the 'society' to treat me in any way. I wish them to leave me alone.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Senior Member leoninfernal's Avatar
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    My point of view is that we must to make clear the difference between the early scene and most of the contemporary. Many Black Metal artists had stated that concerning the artistic and ideological aspects we are talking of two almost opposed tendencies. Anyone who is acquainted with the genre can only agree with this opinion.

    I am an admirer of the early scene, I think the Black Metal Music has a great artistic value and ideological value. More than any other artistic expression It Helped to speak openly about Arian ethnically, cultural and historical pride. The beauty of the lyrics gave our youth a new impression about their land, their ancestors and their history and formed a new, pure and independent vision about the Christianity and the influence from other cultures.

    Technically, It was a fresh, honestly done, insightful music that invited to reflexion.As for me as for many others It was the fuel that ignated our racial awareness.

    Obviously, is hard to say the same concerning many modern bands but the decadence they represent is not enough a reason for private us and our youth from so many things we can learn and enjoy from the Black Metal.

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