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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

  1. #31
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    I'm not a Christian, I am a Viking Heathen following strict moral codes set up by my Viking forefathers They had never heard of "Free will" back then, you know!
    I guess your heathen ancestors didn't intend you to think for yourself and advance their philosophy of life then either? It's not your duty to follow a "strict moral code" that has been set by wise men many hundred years ago, but to advance yet preserve it, to blossom their wisdom into even more advanced theories to understand the world around you and thus act better and more efficient.

    The credo of honoring your culture isn't to embrace something only because it's old. Culture is never static, its constantly evolving (or, sadly enough, degenerating). Progress and Preservation aren't opposites but two necessary elements for a culture to survive. If ancient germanics thought like your statement above suggests, none of us would exist today.
    "Lever dot as slav."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    I guess your heathen ancestors didn't intend you to think for yourself and advance their philosophy of life then either? It's not your duty to follow a "strict moral code" that has been set by wise men many hundred years ago, but to advance yet preserve it, to blossom their wisdom into even more advanced theories to understand the world around you and thus act better and more efficient.

    The credo of honoring your culture isn't to embrace something only because it's old. Culture is never static, its constantly evolving (or, sadly enough, degenerating). Progress and Preservation aren't opposites but two necessary elements for a culture to survive. If ancient germanics thought like your statement above suggests, none of us would exist today.
    It was a joke, I just wanted to show you guys that "Free will" did not exist back then. The old Heathen codes and Free will does not match, I'm afraid. So why base a future society on old Heathen moral codes, if it is progress that we want. To respect our ancestors, would be to leave them out of this, and not give them values they never had in their lives.

  3. #33
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Can you please go read some books about all what you so deliberately want to misunderstand? Like free will, satanism, and when you're reading anyway, get yourself a Nietzsche and Schopenhauer too.

    Maybe your little world will widen a bit.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

  4. #34
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    It was a joke, I just wanted to show you guys that "Free will" did not exist back then. The old Heathen codes and Free will does not match, I'm afraid. So why base a future society on old Heathen moral codes, if it is progress that we want. To respect our ancestors, would be to leave them out of this, and not give them values they never had in their lives.
    I don't disagree with that at all, you're perfectly right on this one. I'm not claiming to hold the moral views of my ancestors, either. I have my own views, and they're not the same as those of old times. However, it was always like that in our history: For example, the early vikings never intended Odin (but Tyr) to be the "main deity" of their panthenon. Nevertheless, their descendants changed that ways to what seemed right to them, they went their own path based on what their ancestors had established. That's what I do, and I deeply hope and believe that one day our descendants will use our knowledge and advance it further and further, to higher levels of understanding and establish a greater culture than all what have been so far. This is cultural evolution to me.
    "Lever dot as slav."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Can you please go read some books about all what you so deliberately want to misunderstand? Like free will, satanism, and when you're reading anyway, get yourself a Nietzsche and Schopenhauer too.

    Maybe your little world will widen a bit.
    Free will has different meanings, maybe you could explain yours to me. And I can't bother with the last two.

    Just explain what Heathen moral codes, has to do with Free will, that Christian codes does not. Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    I don't disagree with that at all, you're perfectly right on this one. I'm not claiming to hold the moral views of my ancestors, either. I have my own views, and they're not the same as those of old times. However, it was always like that in our history: For example, the early vikings never intended Odin (but Tyr) to be the "main deity" of their panthenon. Nevertheless, their descendants changed that ways to what seemed right to them, they went their own path based on what their ancestors had established. That's what I do.
    That means, that in theory, Christianity might as well be changed to suit for example a Black Metal fan. Since both Heathenism and Christianity can, and has, changed over time. Thus I don't see why some people aim their hate at old Christian codes instead of old Heathen codes? Both Christian and Heathen codes can be suited for a BM follower, but none of the old ones will.

  6. #36
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    You're confusing my personal views with those of the BM scene. Again. Also, you're confusing germanic culture (which I was referring to) with germanic heathenry (which is only a small part of this much greater (in every sense of the word) construct). I don't really know what's left to say, you simply don't seem to understand.

    You either are unable to understand (either because I don't make myself clear enough or because you can't percieve what I'm writing) or don't want to understand because you disagree with my views (that's what I assume). Either way, this turns out to be a waste of both your and my time. So be well and follow what is true and right to you, so will I.
    "Lever dot as slav."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    You're confusing my personal views with those of the BM scene. Again. Also, you're confusing germanic culture (which I was referring to) with germanic heathenry (which is only a small part of this much greater (in every sense of the word) construct). I don't really know what's left to say, you simply don't seem to understand.
    Understand exactly what? Culture and religion goes hand in hand. When I speak of the old Heathen codes, I speak of the moral codes, or the culture of pre-Christian Germanics. Germanic culture changes over time, and as you said, heathenism changed to. I'm not sure how much the moral codes of the pre-Christians had to do with the gods, but I call it Heathen because that is what they were.

    What I then said, was if someone can change culture or religion, then why can't we simply change Christianity to suit us better? Understand? It can get confusing talking about philosophy on the web, I admit I usually don't ( I guess that is evident from my confusion).

    I understand that you say, that any moral can be applied to any religion. So modern Germanics can, if they want, change so that Frey could be the leading god or whatever. Modern Christians, can also change so that Jesus becomes a racist or something.

    I don't agree with you really, I am also an atheist and I don't beleive in any universal morals.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Old Winter's Avatar
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    I do not know how the BM scene in Germany is but here its all crap these days, i listened to BM, i have heard more then thousand of BM albums (most of them where crap hahah), but the feeling i had with BM is gone, the scene today is crap here, i will take Belgium with it (in my eyes a part of The Netherlands), there a good friend of mine told me that they sniff cocaine on the toilet at BM shows like they do in the disco's, are very anti-racist and go berserk if you say anything about islam/muzzies but at the same time wear ''kill the christians shirts'' so let alone if you say anything about race, nationalism etc.

    These days the BM people in my lands are really idiotic, you can't say anything around them anymore, they are complete morons, and this goes for all of the metalscene it seems here, this downfall started around 2000.

    Also the rebellious side of it is gone, nowhere to be found, for ten years i have been asking for new brutal metalshirts that are rebellious and real horror, and when i say that the ''metalheads'' give me strange looks, so i quit the metalscene a few years ago and never looked back.

    I still listen to some BM, like old Ancient Rites, but the atmosphere and everything in the scene is gone.

  9. #39
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    What I then said, was if someone can change culture or religion, then why can't we simply change Christianity to suit us better? Understand?
    Yes, I understand what you said. Still, I was talking about culture as a whole. Religion is only a part of culture, like music, poetry, art, everyday life. Christianity in itself isn't a culture, so it wasn't christianity or even heathenry I was talking about, but germanic culture as a whole.

    I will try my best to answer your question, anyways, even if it doesn't have much to do with my earlier posts. Christianity is just a word, it is an abstract concept, it always is what people (the believers) want it to be. Yes, technically it would be possible to change "christianity" in a way that it fits germanic people, or, a black metal fan, if you like. There are, however, two problems with such an enterprise. Firstly, there simply are too few aspects which are desirable in our culture, so, if we'd change everything that is incompatible, that new religion wouldn't be what is called "christianity" today. Secondly, christianity isn't a germanic concept in it's core, not meant to fit into our culture in the first place. I however don't say parts of foreign cultures (like rock music, the arabic decimal system, roman letters...) can't be blended harmonically into our culture, it's more of a relative than an absolute problem.

    All in all, my viewpoint is that in practice, christianity can not be properly incorporated into germanic culture.


    I do not know how the BM scene in Germany is but here its all crap these days, i listened to BM, i have heard more then thousand of BM albums (most of them where crap hahah), but the feeling i had with BM is gone, the scene today is crap here, i will take Belgium with it (in my eyes a part of The Netherlands), there a good friend of mine told me that they sniff cocaine on the toilet at BM shows like they do in the disco's, are very anti-racist and go berserk if you say anything about islam/muzzies but at the same time wear ''kill the christians shirts'' so let alone if you say anything about race, nationalism etc.
    I know what you mean, we have a lot of trendy scumbags calling themselves (black) metallers in germany, too. Still, we also have some decent bands which still make real nice atmospheric music, especially here in the north (it seems to be a lot more popular here then in the western areas like the Ruhrgebiet). I know quite some black metal musicians in my town and most of them are nice, thoughtful, down-to-earth guys with solid viewpoints. They don't exactly re-invent black metal, if you know what I mean, but they participate in keeping the "old" BM atmosphere and message alive.
    "Lever dot as slav."

  10. #40
    Senior Member Old Winter's Avatar
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    But then again, i do not even want to be a part of any scene anymore, maybe it is still alive somewhere but i have become to anti-social to go too anything anymore.

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