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Thread: Is the Black Metal Scene a Positive or Negative Example to Young Germanics?

  1. #21
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    But if you Black Metal people denounce Christianity, why do you portray yourself as they want you to? To piss off the Pope? (I doubt he cares) If Lucifer was really "light", why do you like to appear "dark"? There is no question that BM IS supposed to sound "dark", and the followers to look "dark". In a Germanic context, "light" is good, and light is beauty. That's why good gods like Balder are light and not dark. Still, you who are into BM like the "dark" image, the music itself, no doubt, is supposed to sound scary and dark, right?
    When it scares the average sheeple, that is only fine

    But no, black metal is not supposed to sound dark or evil, it is just an emotional path which most people dont dare to go; your 'negative' emotions are as much part of yourself as your 'light' ones are. But while you try to reject them or cover them, we embrace them as part of ourselves.

    The problem why you (the average human) consider it 'dark' and uncomfortable is because you consider the transmitted emotions 'dark' and negative, and because you fear your own emotions. We dont.


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    And you make Black Metal sound like an ideology, which it is not.
    It is an ideology, whether you like that or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    I also hate the modern degenerate society the same way you claim BM people do, but that view is not solely BM or anything like that, loads of non-BM people have exact the same view on society as the one you stated.. As have been said earlier, some BM people are even "anti-racist" or apolitical.
    Some people claiming to be Germanic preservationists got themselves a Thai or Russian girlfriend. Do you really want that I call you a racemixer, just because there are some 'black sheeps'?

    Unfortunately there are such examples of people calling themselves black metal. They are neither respected nor wanted by other black metal people. But there is no way to stop them from using this label, there are even christian black metal bands, which is the most ridiculous thing ever, or Israeli wanna be black metallers. Black Metal is a Germanic thing, it is Heathen at its core, not satanic or evil (see Totenlicht's post), and it has been based in Blood and Soil from its start as the center of the ideology. As everything though that can be exploited for personal gains, also Black Metal was abused by some individuals who perverted the values, which they anyway never understood nor appreciated. You cant do much against such things, but this is not representative for black metal or its people.
    Real black metal you wont find in the average magazines, in radio or some not even on myspace. Real black metal is not public, so what you see is what black metal is not.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
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  2. #22
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    Well, Christianity is a very small force in Europe today
    Christianity as a supposely "serious" gnostic faith, yes. Christian morality, like worshipping masochism and weakness while rejecting and demonizing natural instincts of man, is still evident and one of the most evident threats to europe.

    so when will BMs start focusing on Islam?
    Most black metallers already hate Islam. The original black metal scene formed in the 80s, when the islamic threat wasn't as obvious as it is today. Also, Islam is more of a corporal threat to europe, less so one of the mind. They wage war on us, yes. They flood our lands with immigrants, yes. But they hardly try to indoctrinate european people with social pressure and everyday propaganda like secularized christianity does.

    And what about all those people that love multiculturlaism that are atheist?
    Black Metal wasn't a movement specifically directed against multiculturalism, although that's a part of what BM rejects. The two great enemies which the movement aimed for, and it's important to distinguish between those two, were christian moral on the one hand and modern materialism, which multi-culturism is a part of, on the other hand. So, yes, the original BM "idea" also rejects modern atheist materialism, including multiculturalism.

    When will you attack them?
    I do on various occasions. If "you" refers to the black metal scene as a whole (which is a thing that doesn't exist anyways), not me as a person, I'm sorry, I can't speak for them. Many "black metallers" already do, though, as explained above.

    To only focus on Christianity, in the modern world, is quite pointless.
    How? Black metal isn't a world view, it's a reactionary (as opposed to actionary, not in a politically backwards way) movement. If there was a movement that focuses on fighting child rape, would it be worthless only because it doesn't also fight pollution of enviroment, illegal prostitution, drug dealing and cancer at the same time?

    Free will, as you said totenlicht, is exactly what is being taught widely today. Christian (and Heathen) morals, are not taught anymore.
    No morals, free will, is what we are taught is right when watching the television.
    No, what we're taught is: Obey the new god, the allmighty dollar. Hoard as much money as you can, be selfish and greedy, and then hit the food button and buy our shiny products. Being a slave to the media and the capitalist system has nothing to do with free will.

    Women (and men), are encouraged to have sex with as many as they can and desert their family, is that Christian or Heathen morals to you?
    No, it isn't. It has nothing to do with BM though.

    BMers would find a natural ally in those that create modern society. "Free will" is what they want.
    No, as I already explained, the materialistic concept of modern society is the opposite of free will, it wants to create slaves to keep the system running.
    "Lever dot as slav."

  3. #23
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    Your really funny velvet, you sit and tell people about their feelings. You are quite immature doing so, you remind me of some 14-year old screaming "The world does not understand me bohooo" *cuts herself*

    You don't know anything about me or others here, or what any non-BM people feel. You are insulting me and alot of other people here. Do you seriously people can't have gone through an emotional hell, just because they do not listen to some guy screaming on a CD? And you know how people progress? Not by focusing all their meaningless life on negative feelings like some 13-year old, but isntead destroying the negative feelings and do something constructive for their folk, as an inspiration to others. That is what the NS would consider an "over-human", I guess.

    So velvet, you really need to think more deeply about this, because you really remind me of these teeangers that go around thinking "I'm deeper cause I'm EMO/Goth/BM, others are idiots". I understand you were offended cause I made fun of the BM music style and make-up, but you do not need to take it to such a deep level. I did not say the feelings of BM are fake, I was just sceptical to why they embrace negative feelings, and their "image". Get it?

    No, what we're taught is: Obey the new god, the allmighty dollar. Hoard as much money as you can, be selfish and greedy, and then hit the food button and buy our shiny products. Being a slave to the media and the capitalist system has nothing to do with free will.
    Well, what is free will then? Satanists do not think greed is wrong, do they? I personally do not beleive in free will as that sort of concept.

    Most black metallers already hate Islam. The original black metal scene formed in the 80s, when the islamic threat wasn't as obvious as it is today. Also, Islam is more of a corporal threat to europe, less so one of the mind. They wage war on us, yes. They flood our lands with immigrants, yes. But they hardly try to indoctrinate european people with social pressure and everyday propaganda like secularized christianity does.
    Well most of their CD covers have crosses, not anything to do with Islam. THat is what people will see.

    Anyway, Heathenism has morals, just like Christianity. Heathenism is not Satanism, sorry to say that. I'm OK with BM being Satanic, but really I see no reason why they like Heathenism.

  4. #24
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer
    That's why I stopped listening to BM back in the mid 80s.
    Just good that in the mid 80s black metal wasnt even born

    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Well, Christianity is a very small force in Europe today, so when will BMs start focusing on Islam? And what about all those people that love multiculturlaism that are atheist? When will you attack them? To only focus on Christianity, in the modern world, is quite pointless.
    No, it's not pointless, because the entire society 'values' are built on christian doctrine. The secularisation hasnt changed that yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Free will, as you said totenlicht, is exactly what is being taught widely today. Christian (and Heathen) morals, are not taught anymore.

    No morals, free will, is what we are taught is right when watching the television. Women (and men), are encouraged to have sex with as many as they can and desert their family, is that Christian or Heathen morals to you? BMers would find a natural ally in those that create modern society. "Free will" is what they want.
    Wow, worst insult

    This modern society is not based in free will, but in massive brainwash which turns people into will-free zombies who only do as their zion-god television tells them.

    You, as many others, dont understand the principle of "Free Will" or what it means. You confuse it with irresponsibility and jester-licenses.

    To freely exercise your will though it is necessary to actually know what your will is, and you need to know the consequences of any action resulting from that will. And will is not to be confused with 'wish'. Will is also requirement, need, or the insight that your will would cause harm to others and not exercise your will (free includes also the possibility to not do something), and not everything you wish is neither what you actually need nor necessarily is good for you. Therefore will is quite another concept than 'wish'. Please stop confusing that.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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  5. #25
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    Velvet, why are you a Heathen? Heathens have no "free will", they have morals. There were strict codes in Viking society. Marriage was as important then as in later Christian socieites, adultery was even a crime. They did not have "free will"

  6. #26
    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    Anyway, Heathenism has morals, just like Christianity. Heathenism is not Satanism, sorry to say that. I'm OK with BM being Satanic, but really I see no reason why they like Heathenism.
    I didn't say black metal rejects moral as a whole, I said black metal rejects absolute moral truths (which, to my knowledge, don't exist in germanic paganism). I only stated my interpretation of black metal anyways, as you see there's no black metal "doctrine". Velvet said BM is an ideology, I stated it's not, but "only" a mostly destructive movement against false moral values. So what's the truth? There is none, simple as that. It's a matter of interpretation. Black metal isn't a person having definite opinions, it consists of many thoughts of many different (and at the same time, similar) people. There always have been different philosophical currents in the movement, and still are.

    Well, what is free will then? Satanists do not think greed is wrong, do they? I personally do not beleive in free will as that sort of concept.
    Well...

    To freely exercise your will though it is necessary to actually know what your will is, and you need to know the consequences of any action resulting from that will. And will is not to be confused with 'wish'. Will is also requirement, need, or the insight that your will would cause harm to others and not exercise your will (free includes also the possibility to not do something), and not everything you wish is neither what you actually need nor necessarily is good for you. Therefore will is quite another concept than 'wish'. Please stop confusing that.
    This.

    Well, what is free will then? Satanists do not think greed is wrong, do they? I personally do not beleive in free will as that sort of concept.
    I'm not a satanist, so I can only speak from an extroperspective about them. I don't think many of them encourage greed, for the smart ones have to realize that even from an amoral perspective being greedy isn't a good base for society to build on. Amorality isn't about doing anything you'd like to do at the given moment, it's about doing what is effective for you, what your true will is. Advocating greed as a base of society isn't.
    "Lever dot as slav."

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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    I didn't say black metal rejects moral as a whole, I said black metal rejects absolute moral truths (which, to my knowledge, don't exist in germanic paganism). I only stated my interpretation of black metal anyways, as you see there's no black metal "doctrine". Velvet said BM is an ideology, I stated it's not, but "only" a mostly destructive movement against false moral values. So what's the truth? There is none, simple as that. It's a matter of interpretation. Black metal isn't a person having definite opinions, it consists of many thoughts of many different (and at the same time, similar) people. There always have been different philosophical currents in the movement, and still are.
    Well, yeah I sort of understood the BM movements is made up of alot of different sort of people with different ideas, just like all music fans have different opinions on all sort of issues.

    I do not attack what BM people believe, I sort of agree with alot. I was just criticizng the image they have, and that they are Heathens, which I do not understand.

    What do you mean by "absolute morals"? There were laws in Vikings society, and thus they also hade morals that they followed. They had judges and all that who decided the penalities, and they usually followed some sort of moral code. I do not see what you mean would be different if it is "absolute"?

    I can't wait for the first "anti-Heathenism" BM album to be released

  8. #28
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    Your really funny velvet, you sit and tell people about their feelings. You are quite immature doing so
    So, having emotions then is immature for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Méldmir
    You don't know anything about me or others here, or what any non-BM people feel. You are insulting me
    Wasnt it you who told me in the shoutbox that you never read a heathen text? That you dont like black metal, although you have at best heard a handful songs?

    Insult to decency is you who dare it with a blackhole where knowledge should be to judge in the manner about other people like you do.

    Immature? Basing your hatred against something in some cliches and your confused christian worldview doesnt make you look exactly matured. Who's sitting in the glas house...
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    So, having emotions then is immature for you?



    Wasnt it you who told me in the shoutbox that you never read a heathen text? That you dont like black metal, although you have at best heard a handful songs?

    Insult to decency is you who dare it with a blackhole where knowledge should be to judge in the manner about other people like you do.

    Immature? Basing your hatred against something in some cliches and your confused christian worldview doesnt make you look exactly matured. Who's sitting in the glas house...
    I'm not a Christian, I am a Viking Heathen following strict moral codes set up by my Viking forefathers They had never heard of "Free will" back then, you know!

  10. #30
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht
    Velvet said BM is an ideology, I stated it's not, but "only" a mostly destructive movement against false moral values.
    This 'false moral values' come with christian ideology. So a 'movement' (which it isnt anymore) that writes on its flags to destroy the ideological basis of this false moral, is an ideology in itself.
    You said it is only reactionary and indeed there are some who focus on the process of destruction itself. But this wasnt what black metal was meant to be. When you're planning to destroy the very fundaments of the current world, you need to have something in mind with which to replace it. And this is likewise an ideological value, which in large parts bases in Heathenism, including its social values and social orders (what would take the place of the "absolute christian moral truth" without being and meaning exactly the same).



    -------

    Himmler had worked out the connection between esoteric Satanism and Heathenism quite well. This really isnt a genuine black metal idea, but is way older.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

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