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Thread: Is Fate a Reality?

  1. #21
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    Post Re: Fate

    And you are missing my point. We have free will. We choose to act the way God wants us to act, or we act sinfully. How we act is not God's responsibility. We are responsible for our own actions. God does not HAVE to do anything about them if he does not wish. But he influences us every day and guides us be ause he loves us. If you don't even believe in him, then why should he help you? Would you like to answer billions of prayers each day, prevent all evil, stop all deaths, and do this all while trying to earn the love of a people who does not believe in you?
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  2. #22
    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    And you are missing my point. We have free will. We choose to act the way God wants us to act, or we act sinfully. How we act is not God's responsibility. We are responsible for our own actions. God does not HAVE to do anything about them if he does not wish. But he influences us every day and guides us be ause he loves us. If you don't even believe in him, then why should he help you? Would you like to answer billions of prayers each day, prevent all evil, stop all deaths, and do this all while trying to earn the love of a people who does not believe in you?
    God knew what would happen when he created the universe and everything in it and chose to allow it to develop the way it did. God made us the way we are and knew exactly what each of us would do. Otherwise, he is not an omnipotent and omniscient God. So either God is omnipotent, but cruel, because he allows evil and punishes people for the nature he gave them, or he is weak and can't change events.

    I don't think I said I didn't believe in God, I said it was unknowable. Your logic is circular. Why should God help someone who doesn't believe in him? Why should someone believe in God if he doesn't help them? God doesn't prevent all evil or stop all deaths. God could have created a universe where none of those things even exist, and chose not to.

  3. #23
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    Post Re: Fate

    This conversation is circular. We could go on like this forever. God made us the way we should be. with choice. We CHOOSE TO DO EVIL or we CHOOSE TO DO GOOD. I do not want to be perfect. I am just gonna drop this because it can be argued for all eternity. When I said You, I am sorry that if it seemed specific. I was not accusing you of anything.
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  4. #24
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Stribog
    God knew what would happen when he created the universe and everything in it and chose to allow it to develop the way it did. God made us the way we are and knew exactly what each of us would do. Otherwise, he is not an omnipotent and omniscient God.
    My understanding is that it was the recognition of this paradox that led Jean Calvin to formulate the doctrine of predestination, i.e. that God knew before he created the universe whom the 'Elect' would be, and that everyone else was predestined to damnation, without any hope of redemption at all. And Calvinism has played a rather significant role in the history of Protestantism.

    So, it should be understood that Stribog's argument (leaving aside its normative conclusions about the nature of God) was accepted as true by one of the most important figures in the history of Christian theology.

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    Post Re: Fate

    We CHOOSE TO DO EVIL or we CHOOSE TO DO GOOD.
    Yes, but this supposed "choice" is a facade as god (according to you) possesses the foresight to know which decision will ultimately be made, thus making man's deliberation and "free will" rather futile.

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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    As you said yourself, you either choose God or you don't. That is choice. Adam and Eve had Choice. You have choice. It is a very easy choice.
    Adam and Eve is a fable - a fiction created by the same people who created the fiction of a "jealous God".
    If God is not a piece of creative fiction, then who or what created God?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Fate

    From a Christian Perspective God is the "Uncreated" Creator. The one who is and was and who is to come.(some verse in the Bible)

    Christian Theology teaches God has always been and always will be. In God there is no past present future. He is all those things at Once.
    Looking at it from a Christian Perspective. Humans didn't make up a fictious God. God gave humans the intellectual ablity to comprehend his Existance. With the purpose of following his "Directives" or "Doing his Will" as Christians will refer it as, and having Fellowship with him. There by pleasing God and gaining Eternal Life in his Prescence(Heaven).

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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak View Post
    Okay, God is all-knowing, all-powerful. Since he knows everything that has, is, and ever will happen, we can come to the conclusion that fate is a reality. Since God knows everything, including the choices WE WILL MAKE, that makes fate true. Plus the fact that there is no Time in Heaven, he can see anywhere he chooses at any time.
    Fate? No, more like Divine Providence in my opinion.

    “If by fate anyone means the will or power of God, let him keep his meaning but mend his language; for fate commonly means a necessary process which will have its way apart from the will of God and men.”
    — Saint Augustine
    Let us not desire delights, daughters; we are well-off here; the bad inn lasts for only a night.
    -St. Teresa of Avila

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