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Thread: Is Fate a Reality?

  1. #11
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    People have free will and choices. They do what they will, God simply knows what they are going to do. He does not control what they do, although he could if he wanted. I don't see you doing anything about it yourself anyway. And seeing as how I do not know God's plan, I am unable to answer that question. Would you like to explain to me yourself why the world is not perfect harmony.
    'Free will' and 'choices' contradicts your notion of 'Fate' as stated in your title.

    If everything is pre-ordained as you say, then there is only the ILLUSION of free-choice.

    If God knows what everybody is going to do, and God is all powerful, then why doesn't he intervene when innocents are slaughtered and when Evil triumphs?
    Why does God stand back and merely observe the spectacle that he has created?

    Now you say that God does not control "even if he wanted"!
    This contradicts your assertion that God is all powerful, outside of time and therefore omnipresent.

    So your God is either an Evil sadist, or else he lacks power [and is therefore not really fit to be called God].

    You then quickly contradict yourself again by suggesting that this confused God has a "plan"!
    Some plan!
    If this world is his "plan", then he is an EVIL PLANNER!

    Who said that the world SHOULD be in 'perfect harmony'? - or are you trying to say that that is "God's plan" as you see it?

    You are the one positing the threadbare hypothesis of an All Powerful, All Knowing, All Good God!

    Surely if that were true, then the world would be All Good [and harmonious] as it would reflect it's Creator!

    If God created this world then he is a malefactor.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, June 10th, 2004 at 05:07 PM. Reason: spelling
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  2. #12
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    Post Re: Fate

    ah, I just remembered something. Throughout the bible, there are several words that are apaced out through different sentences. For example, The first letter of a word, five words apart spells something such as Hitler or something. Predictions of the future that have not been found until recently.
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  3. #13
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    Good point but I have a better one. God gave us choice right. If there was no evil, then there would be no choice about which way your life would go. If there was no evil, you could only choose good. Get it? Without Evil, there is no choice about your life.
    What choice? If you choose for god you go to heaven (live). If you choose against god you go to hell (death). That is no choice, that is dictatorship.

    look at the bible, God placeest a tree (knowledge) in the garden of eden. only if you took the fruit... then you have problems. The (sin) flood is also a good example. If you don't do what god wants, then that is the result...
    The tower of babel is also a good example.

    there is no real choice.

  4. #14
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    Post Re: Fate

    As you said yourself, you either choose God or you don't. That is choice. Adam and Eve had Choice. You have choice. It is a very easy choice.
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  5. #15
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    ah, I just remembered something. Throughout the bible, there are several words that are apaced out through different sentences. For example, The first letter of a word, five words apart spells something such as Hitler or something. Predictions of the future that have not been found until recently.
    ROFL this method has been thoroughly debunked. It can be performed with any book through simple statistics. What "bible" are you talking about anyway? King James? New Revised Standard Version? St. Jerome Latin Vulgate? The original "bible" was written in a haphazard fashion over millenia in multiple languages. Books were included or excluded based on random political whims. How would this Bible Code work at all when Hebrew has no vowels? Seems to me there is a lot of subjective misinterpretation by Christians who are anxious to justify their beliefs.

  6. #16
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    Post Re: Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak
    As you said yourself, you either choose God or you don't. That is choice. Adam and Eve had Choice. You have choice. It is a very easy choice.
    See my posts in the Big Bang thread.

    If an omniscient and omnipotent God created the universe and mankind, he knew exactly what he was doing when he created them. He gave mankind its nature while foreseeing what the effects of that nature would be. Therefore not only is God responsible for man's sins by knowingly and willfully creating humanity to his own exact specifications, but he has no right to judge or punish any of his creations since they behave according to the nature he deliberately gave them.

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    Post Re: Fate

    What makes God responsible for our sins? We are the ones who sin. We CHOOSE to sin. God does not force us to sin or not to sin. Repentence and faith in Jesus is what saves us from our sins.
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  8. #18
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    Post Re: Fate

    What makes God responsible for our sins? We are the ones who sin. We CHOOSE to sin. God does not force us to sin or not to sin. Repentence and faith in Jesus is what saves us from our sins.
    God is responsible because he created us with the capablity to sin. Why didn't God create Creatures that are Perfectly Good and encapable of Evil if he wanted to.

    More over isn't God also responsible for the Moral Evils that are present in this world? Famine,War,Natural Diasters. In various places in the Bible it speaks of God sending Evil spirits, Plagues and giving Satan permission to do Evil.

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    Post Re: Fate

    Because the people have sinned against God, so he is punishing them. We sin against God, and he punishes us.
    "Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name;
    make known among the nations what he has done.
    Sing to him, Sing praise to him;
    tell of his wonderful acts.
    Glory to his Holy Name;
    let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
    Look to the Lord and his strength;
    seek his face always.
    Remember the wonders he has done,
    his miracles and judgements he pronounced."
    -I Chrinicles 16:8-12

  10. #20
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    Post Re: Fate

    You're missing the point. If God created flawed creatures, then they are his responsibility. He made mankind this way deliberately.

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