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Thread: Racial Map of Germany

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    Racial Map of Germany

    Hello,
    I'm wondering if anyone has a racial map specifically of Germany. I found out that one of my relatives came from northern Thuringia in Germany and so I'de like to find what possible racial categories are possible for that region. I tried looking up other posts on it.

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    Hows this?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Hows this?
    Very bad and it was bad when made already, because its much to simplistic, not based on sufficient data and the whole concept being wrong.

    If you dont even distinguish between Dinarid and Alpinid, you can just forget it, and the people mentioned were not always that clearly of this or that racial type neither.

    Some generalised maps for Europe
    Eickstedt/Schwidetzky:


    One from the same German school, from Ewald Banse:

    He was not precise about Eastern Europe, there is no such general Osteuropid mass there, its more complex.

    Biasutti:


    Czeckanowski:


    Hello,
    I'm wondering if anyone has a racial map specifically of Germany. I found out that one of my relatives came from northern Thuringia in Germany and so I'de like to find what possible racial categories are possible for that region. I tried looking up other posts on it.
    Simple put, everything present in Germany can be present in Thuringia, but Thuringia is pred. Nordid - Alpinoid/Cromagno-Alpinoid.
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    A regional overview of Germany can be read below:

    The German-speaking area has been described by me in detail in the Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes, and several ethnographical maps are there given. Only a short survey, therefore, will here be made. North-west Germany and north Holland, especially where the Lower Saxon dialect is spoken, are seen clearly to be the regions where the Nordic race is most strongly predominant. Starting from here, the Nordic strain grows weaker as we go south, south-west, and east. East of the Oder we can no longer (except for the Baltic coast to about the Vistula) speak of a predominance of the Nordic race, nor south of the Main (except for a southward movement of Nordic blood along the larger river valleys).

    North-east Germany, particularly East Prussia, shows itself as the region where the East Baltic strain is strongest; but there is nothing like an East Baltic predominance. This race is found entering as an element all over the east of the German-speaking area, and particularly in Saxony and Lower Austria. Westward of a line drawn from about Kiel to Innsbruck6 perhaps but little of the East Baltic strain is to be seen. But, judging from portraits of the inhabitants, I should be inclined to suspect a certain East Baltic strain, too, in Holland, whose origin, indeed, it will not be easy to determine.

    It is the whole region of the Bavarian dialect which shows the strongest element of Dinaric race. In south Bavaria and Austria what we find is a predominance of this race -- a predominance which grows more and more decided as we near the south-eastern boundary of the German-speaking area. But strains of Dinaric blood reach from these regions as far as the west of the German-speaking area; while in eastern Switzerland, in the Hotzenwald (south Baden), and in the Vosges (Alsace) we seem even to find once again a predominance of the Dinaric race. Dinaric blood hardly goes north of the line of the Main.7

    South-west Germany shows the strongest strain of Alpine blood; indeed, in the Black Forest, in western Switzerland, in the more mountainous parts of Württemberg, and in the midlands of Bavaria there is a certain preponderance of Alpine blood. This blood, whether as a weaker or as a stronger element, is found distributed over the whole German-speaking area; it is particularly strong along the German-French language boundary, and in Upper Silesia.

    Mediterranean blood is only weakly represented in the German-speaking area; it is more evident in western Switzerland and the eastern Alps, and also in the Palatinate, the Rhineland, and, above all, the Moselle valley. Inner Asiatic blood may have occasionally trickled through from Eastern Europe. The amount of Nordic blood in the German people may be reckoned at 50 to 55 per cent. The Nordic strain in Germany seems to be rather more distributed over the whole people than in England, where it seems to belong far more to the upper classes.
    From THE RACIAL ELEMENTS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY by Hans F.K. Günther

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    Are Alpines really representative of the areas showed in these maps? I've possibly seen more short and stocky people in the Mediterranean area than in Switzerland and Germany.

    Is that just a matter of abstract cephalic measurations, not taking into account overall body structure?

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    Alpinoids are by the definitions shortheads, so there is no such thing as a long headed Alpinoid. Closest to that are Berids in Central Spain, inner Sardinia and parts of Italy, which are more primitive-coarse on average though, but might be close to the ancestral Proto-Alpinoids of the West at least - the classic Westalpinids.

    Alpinoids in Germany might be, much more often, descendents from other Alpinised Cromagnoids.

    Basically I consider Alpinisation happening along this lines:

    Cromagnid (Dalofaelid light, Palaeatlantid/Berberid dark) - part Alpinised = (Borreby Northern-colder-lighter, Berid Southern-warmer-darker) = Alpinid.

    So it goes in steps and every position in between is possible, either due to mixture or retention of an intermediate status.

    More German Alpinoids are rather on the Borreby - Cromagno-Alpinoid side still, both because of mixture and intermediate position, whereas typical Westalpinids in France represent the more "classic form".

    overall body structure
    That must be defined and age related. F.e. Gracilmediterranid women are in younger age much more often very gracile-leptomorphic looking than in older age, Alpinoids are broader in younger age already, thats even more true under modern living conditions, with "the good food" etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    That must be defined and age related. F.e. Gracilmediterranid women are in younger age much more often very gracile-leptomorphic looking than in older age, Alpinoids are broader in younger age already, thats even more true under modern living conditions, with "the good food" etc...
    If dolichocephalic southern Europeans are more progressive than brachycephalic central Europeans, then why in Italian maps do they seem to show more frequently unprogressive features such as shorter faces and snub noses? Is there something wrong in the correlation of progressive facial traits with dolichocephaly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elongated One View Post
    If dolichocephalic southern Europeans are more progressive than brachycephalic central Europeans, then why in Italian maps do they seem to show more frequently unprogressive features such as shorter faces and snub noses? Is there something wrong in the correlation of progressive facial traits with dolichocephaly?
    A lot of Italy is Berid-Alpinoid - Mediterranid mixed actually.

    Dolichocephaly or Brachycephaly, thats no easy issue, because there different kinds of either. A Berid dolichocephal is obviously not more progressive than a Dinarid and the Dinarids are among the most brachycephalic and the same time most progressive racial forms of the world.

    Alpinoids too show a great variation from rather Cromagnoid-robust to very infantile-reduced, from more progressive to more protomorphic etc.

    Even whole regions differ significantly with some Eastalpinid regions with Dinaroid tendencies showing quite different and usually more progressive form etc.

    Nordid, Atlantomediterranid, Dinarid and Iranid f.e. are all peak types, they are among the highest standing racial forms of modern humanity, in comparison most other racial forms are less progressive I might add.

    Dolichocephaly vs. Brachycephaly is like tall vs. shorter or ligth vs. darker etc. just one thing, one factor, on its own far less important than general trends of progressive-infantile-primitive category.
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    Admittedly, I don't have a very strong understanding of these things, but studying the maps, am I to understand that Poles belong to the Nordid subrace? And if so, does this make them racially Germanic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    Admittedly, I don't have a very strong understanding of these things, but studying the maps, am I to understand that Poles belong to the Nordid subrace? And if so, does this make them racially Germanic?
    To begin with, most of these maps were made when Germany had its Eastern provinces, this means there were major migrations and changes in this region after most of these maps were made.

    So most of the Nordid coastal Germans from Prussia now live in other parts of Germany f.e. and Poles from other regions, often from the Ukraine too, settled in areas like Pomerania and Silesia.

    But still the Northern Poles are more Nordoid than the Southern and Eastern ones.

    Their Nordid type is however more Eastnordid than Skandonordid, coming from the older Indoeuropean and Slavic people rather, then from Germanic ones, though this depends on the exact region.

    Nordid being in no way restricted to the Germanic people. As not all Germanics are Nordoid, so are not all Nordoid individuals Germanic, simple as that, because Germanic and Slavic are ethnocultural units, no racial ones.

    To suspect Germanic admixture in every Nordoid individual is therefore wrong.

    Thats true in even Germany, with some regions being probably earlier Germanicised than others, yet being not more Nordid, because whether they are more Nordid today depends as much on later selective processes and of course the population living there before. Some Celtic and Slavic areas f.e. were significantly more Nordoid than others...
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