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Thread: Websites, Articles, Books on the Existence of Race

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Quote Originally Posted by Frid
    I am not undecided but I think this topic suits this part of the forum.

    Often one meet people who claim that there is no such thing as different races. This is quite common but how does one argue this. That is, what is the best way to prove that human races do exist? It would be interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on this.
    Usually these people are impossible to convince. They know what race is but it doesn't suit their political agenda.

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Quote Originally Posted by Frid
    Thanks everyone! Regarding genes, humans only differ with a little more than one and a half percent from chimpanzees.
    Eighty percent of proteins are different between humans and chimpanzees

    Galina Glazko, Vamsi Veeramachaneni, Masatoshi Nei and Wojciech MakałowskiCorresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author

    Institute of Molecular Evolutionary Genetics, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA
    Department of Biology, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA


    Received 12 August 2004; revised 1 October 2004; accepted 5 November 2004. Received by T. Gojobori. Available online 29 January 2005.



    Abstract


    The chimpanzee is our closest living relative. The morphological differences between the two species are so large that there is no problem in distinguishing between them. However, the nucleotide difference between the two species is surprisingly small. The early genome comparison by DNA hybridization techniques suggested a nucleotide difference of 1–2%. Recently, direct nucleotide sequencing confirmed this estimate. These findings generated the common belief that the human is extremely close to the chimpanzee at the genetic level. However, if one looks at proteins, which are mainly responsible for phenotypic differences, the picture is quite different, and about 80% of proteins are different between the two species. Still, the number of proteins responsible for the phenotypic differences may be smaller since not all genes are directly responsible for phenotypic characters.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...74880983040aac
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Quote Originally Posted by itsallaroundyou
    Human share about 99.9% (actual number may be slightly lower) common DNA among eachother. Humans also share 90% common DNA with a mouse.
    Two years ago, a group of researchers led by Michael Wigler at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory found the first evidence that some of us have more copies of certain genes than do others (R. Lucito et al. Genome Res. 13, 2291−2305; 2003). And at last week's meeting, Evan Eichler of the University of Washington in Seattle reported that this is just the beginning: not only do we carry different copy numbers of parts of our DNA, we also have varying numbers of deletions, insertions and other major rearrangements in our genomes.
    In fact, Eichler found at least 297 places in the genome where different individuals have different forms of these major structural variations. At these spots, some of us might carry a major deletion, for example, or an extra hundred bases of DNA.
    But do such differences mean anything? Here, too, fresh evidence paints an intriguing picture. In January, scientists at the Iceland-based company deCODE Genetics found a long inversion — a stretch of DNA that is flipped around backwards — that is common in Europeans, but not in Asians and Africans (H. Stefánsson et al. Nature Genet. 37, 129−137; 2005). They also found that women who have this inversion bear more children than those who don't — a classic sign that the inversion confers an evolutionary advantage.
    At the Cold Spring Harbor meeting, scientists presented more evidence that structural differences are important in human evolution. Duc-Quang Nguyen, a postdoctoral fellow in Chris Ponting's laboratory at the University of Oxford, UK, reported an analysis of areas where there are different numbers of copies of DNA stretches. Nguyen found that natural selection is actively working on these genes.
    What's more, he found that many of these genes belong to groups that seem to help us interact with our environment. For instance, many work in the immune system, and affect how we fight off disease. These are exactly the sort of genes that could explain our diversity — why some of us get asthma when exposed to air pollution, or why some of us can eat plenty of cheeseburgers without gaining weight.
    "We knew these variations existed, but this year we're asking, do they matter?" says Ewan Birney, head of bioinformatics for the European Molecular Biology Laboratory, based in Cambridge, UK. "The answer seems to be yes."


    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/05...e-genomic.html
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    RACIAL GROUPINGS MATCH GENETIC PROFILES, STANFORD STUDY FINDS


    STANFORD - Checking a box next to a racial/ethnic category gives several pieces of information about people - the continent where their ancestors were born, the possible color of their skin and perhaps something about their risk of different diseases. But a new study by researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine finds that the checked box also says something about a person's genetic background.

    This work comes on the heels of several contradictory studies about the genetic basis of race. Some found that race is a social construct with no genetic basis while others suggested that clear genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    What makes the current study, published in the February issue of the American Journal of Human Genetics, more conclusive is its size. The study is by far the largest, consisting of 3,636 people who all identified themselves as either white, African-American, East Asian or Hispanic. Of these, only five individuals had DNA that matched an ethnic group different than the box they checked at the beginning of the study. That's an error rate of 0.14 percent.

    According to Neil Risch, PhD, a UCSF professor who led the study while he was professor of genetics at Stanford, the findings are particularly surprising given that people in both African-American and Hispanic ethnic groups often have a mixed background. "We might expect these individuals to cross several different genetic clusters," Risch said. This is especially true for Hispanics who are often a mix of Native American, white and African-American ancestry. But that's not what the study found. Instead, each self-identified racial/ethnic group clumped into the same genetic cluster.

    The people in this research were all part of a study on the genetics of hypertension, recruited at 15 locations within the United States and in Taiwan. This broad distribution is important because it means that the results are representative of racial/ethnic groups throughout the United States rather than a small region that might not reflect the population nationwide.

    For each person in the study, the researchers examined 326 DNA regions that tend to vary between people. These regions are not necessarily within genes, but are simply genetic signposts on chromosomes that come in a variety of different forms at the same location.

    Without knowing how the participants had identified themselves, Risch and his team ran the results through a computer program that grouped individuals according to patterns of the 326 signposts. This analysis could have resulted in any number of different clusters, but only four clear groups turned up. And in each case the individuals within those clusters all fell within the same self-identified racial group.

    "This shows that people's self-identified race/ethnicity is a nearly perfect indicator of their genetic background," Risch said.

    When the team further analyzed each of the four clusters, they found two distinct sub-groups within the East Asian genetic cluster. These two groups correlated with people who identified themselves as Chinese and Japanese. None of the other genetic groups could be broken down into smaller sub-sections. This suggests that there isn't enough genetic difference to distinguish between people who have ancestry from northern Europe versus southern Europe, for example. Risch admitted that few people in this study were of recent mixed ancestry, who might not fall into such neat genetic categories.

    This work could influence how medical research is carried out. Often researchers ask study participants to identify their race and ethnicity at the beginning of a clinical trial. The researchers can then follow people of different racial/ethnic groups to see which group is more likely to get a particular disease or respond well to a new treatment. This information can help future doctors know which patients may need additional disease screening or should receive one treatment over another.

    But recently some researchers have moved to examining genetic differences between participants rather than relying on race and ethnicity. Their reasoning is that genetic differences may be a more precise tool for tracking groups of patients. Risch points out that this genetic analysis is costly. If people fall into the same groups using self-identified race as using genetics, then that could bring down the expanding cost of medical research.

    Other Stanford researchers who participated in this work include Hua Tang, a graduate student now at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and Tom Quertermous, MD, the William G. Irwin Professor in Cardiovascular Medicine.

    # # #

    Stanford University Medical Center integrates research, medical education and patient care at its three institutions - Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford Hospital & Clinics and Lucile Packard Children's Hospital at Stanford. For more information, please visit the Web site of the medical center's Office of Communication & Public Affairs at http://mednews.stanford.edu.

    # # #


    Stanford University Medical Center integrates research, medical education and patient care at its three institutions - Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford Hospital & Clinics and Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. For more information, please visit the Office of Communication & Public Affairs site at http://mednews.stanford.edu.

    Mednews.Stanford.edu

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-rgm012705.php

    Download whole study here: http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...0&d=1125302828
    Last edited by Triglav; Monday, August 29th, 2005 at 10:12 AM. Reason: study attached
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Posted on Fri, Feb. 18, 2005

    Gene researchers find variations by ancestry

    DISCOVERY COULD HELP PREVENT, TREAT DISEASES AMONG GROUPS


    By Lisa M. Krieger and Esther Landhuis

    Mercury News


    Under the skin, we're all the same. That's been the warm-and-fuzzy wisdom of modern genetics, based on the first efforts to sequence the human genome.

    But a closer look by Mountain View biotech company Perlegen Sciences has found small genetic differences that vary in prevalence among people of different ancestries -- suggesting that nature may not be colorblind, after all.

    The goal of the new information is to help prevent and treat common diseases. The first comprehensive map of genetic variation among several ethnic groups, published in today's issue of the journal Science, shows patterns of genetic variation that could explain differences in health, disease and response to medication. This is a key step toward the possibility of personalized medicine based on genetic variations.

    ``We think this is a very powerful new resource for identifying the genetic determinants of complex traits,'' said David Hinds, statistical genetics analyst at Perlegen. He spoke to reporters Thursday in Washington, D.C., at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes Science.

    Although it is not their goal, the Perlegen scientists have found differences that suggest ``race'' has biological significance.

    Critics fear that the identification of biological differences among races could bolster cranks and demagogues, allowing scientists to play into the hands of racists. Many anthropologists, sociologists, geneticists and population biologists consider race a social construct.

    But scientists and doctors say the idea of race-based medicine has new respectability -- and that identifying tiny differences could help reduce health disparities among the races.

    It is known, for instance, that hypertension affects black Americans at a higher rate than white Americans. And white Americans sometimes take longer to clear certain drugs from the liver than East Asians.

    Life's genetic blueprint is 99.9 percent similar from person to person.

    The remaining 0.1 percent consists of single-letter DNA variations called SNPs (pronounced SNIPS), or single nucleotide polymorphisms.

    Most patterns of genetic variation are common and found in all populations.

    But others are less common -- and are likely to determine a person's vulnerability to disease and response to medications, as well as other traits, such as eye or hair color, height and body type.

    Uncommon SNPs occur in different frequencies in different populations. For instance, 70 percent of African-Americans might have a nucleotide represented by the letter A; 30 percent might have a letter T. At the same spot, the percentage may be flipped in European-Americans. The difference in frequency of a specific letter could make a population more susceptible to disease.

    Finding those differences, and identifying whether they have any clinical significance, is the goal, said Paul Cuzenza, who oversees research collaborations at Perlegen.

    The Perlegen researchers analyzed nearly 1.6 million SNPs across 71 unrelated individuals.

    They found that most of the SNPs were common to the three human populations in the study. But 94 percent of the study's SNPs were found in African-Americans, 81 percent in European-Americans and 74 percent in Chinese-Americans.

    The presence of these patterns allowed the scientists to create the first picture of the structure of human genetic variation.

    ``Our paper in no way makes any sort of a scientific statement or definition of race,'' said David Cox, Perlegen's chief scientific officer. ``When you look at any group of individuals, you'll see differences in their DNA.''

    Perlegen is now working to generate an even better map, describing variation across individuals of Japanese, Chinese, Nigerian and European ancestry.

    The company hopes to include 4 million SNPs in 270 individuals by the end of the year.

    In a related and even more significant project, it is comparing the genetic variants of sick and healthy people. Their blood samples come from people with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, breast cancer -- even nicotine addiction. This research is not yet published.

    ``The challenge going forward is to translate this technology into something that's efficient and informative,'' said Lawrence Lesko, chair of pharmacogenomics at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    source: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...0932272.htm?1c

    The study:

    Whole-Genome Patterns of Common DNA Variation in Three Human Populations
    David A. Hinds,1 Laura L. Stuve,1 Geoffrey B. Nilsen,1 Eran Halperin,2 Eleazar Eskin,3 Dennis G. Ballinger,1 Kelly A. Frazer,1 David R. Cox1*

    Individual differences in DNA sequence are the genetic basis of human variability. We have characterized whole-genome patterns of common human DNA variation by genotyping 1,586,383 single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in 71 Americans of European, African, and Asian ancestry. Our results indicate that these SNPs capture most common genetic variation as a result of linkage disequilibrium, the correlation among common SNP alleles. We observe a strong correlation between extended regions of linkage disequilibrium and functional genomic elements. Our data provide a tool for exploring many questions that remain regarding the causal role of common human DNA variation in complex human traits and for investigating the nature of genetic variation within and between human populations.

    1 Perlegen Sciences Inc., 2021 Stierlin Court, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA.
    2 International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA 94704, USA.
    3 Department of Computer Science and Engineering, University of California–San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093, USA.

    FULL STUDY:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...ref&siteid=sci
    Download it here: http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...9&d=1108842800
    Last edited by Triglav; Monday, August 29th, 2005 at 10:08 AM.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

  6. #56
    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Human brain may still be evolving: research

    Associated Press

    WASHINGTON — The human brain may still be evolving. So suggests new research that tracked changes in two genes thought to help regulate brain growth, changes that appeared well after the rise of modern humans 200,000 years ago.

    That the defining feature of humans -- our large brains -- continued to evolve as recently as 5,800 years ago, and may be doing so today, promises to surprise the average person, if not biologists.

    "We, including scientists, have considered ourselves as sort of the pinnacle of evolution," noted lead researcher Bruce Lahn, a University of Chicago geneticist whose studies appear in Friday's edition of the journal Science.

    "There's a sense we as humans have kind of peaked," agreed Greg Wray, director of Duke University's Center for Evolutionary Genomics. "A different way to look at is it's almost impossible for evolution not to happen."

    Still, the findings also are controversial, because it's far from clear what effect the genetic changes had or if they arose when Lahn's "molecular clock" suggests -- at roughly the same time period as some cultural achievements, including written language and the development of cities.


    Lahn and colleagues examined two genes, named microcephalin and ASPM, that are connected to brain size. If those genes don't work, babies are born with severely small brains, called microcephaly.

    Using DNA samples from ethnically diverse populations, they identified a collection of variations in each gene that occurred with unusually high frequency. In fact, the variations were so common they couldn't be accidental mutations but instead were probably due to natural selection, where genetic changes that are favorable to a species quickly gain a foothold and begin to spread, the researchers report.

    Lahn offers an analogy: Medieval monks would copy manuscripts and each copy would inevitably contain errors -- accidental mutations. Years later, a ruler declares one of those copies the definitive manuscript, and a rush is on to make many copies of that version -- so whatever changes from the original are in this presumed important copy become widely disseminated.

    Scientists attempt to date genetic changes by tracing back to such spread, using a statistical model that assumes genes have a certain mutation rate over time.

    For the microcephalin gene, the variation arose about 37,000 years ago, about the time period when art, music and tool-making were emerging, Lahn said. For ASPM, the variation arose about 5,800 years ago, roughly correlating with the development of written language, spread of agriculture and development of cities, he said.

    "The genetic evolution of humans in the very recent past might in some ways be linked to the cultural evolution," he said.

    Other scientists urge great caution in interpreting the research.

    That the genetic changes have anything to do with brain size or intelligence "is totally unproven and potentially dangerous territory to get into with such sketchy data," stressed Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute.

    Aside from not knowing what the gene variants actually do, no one knows how precise the model Lahn used to date them is, Collins added.

    Lahn's own calculations acknowledge that the microcephalin variant could have arisen anywhere from 14,000 to 60,000 years ago, and that the uncertainty about the ASPM variant ranged from 500 to 14,000 years ago.

    Those criticisms are particularly important, Collins said, because Lahn's testing did find geographic differences in populations harboring the gene variants today. They were less common in sub-Saharan African populations, for example.

    That does not mean one population is smarter than another, Lahn and other scientists stressed, noting that numerous other genes are key to brain development.

    "There's just no correlation," said Duke's Wray, calling education and other environmental factors more important for intelligence than DNA anyway.

    The work was funded by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Arguing for the existance of different races

    Maps of distribution (unfortunately, the sample sizes were low).


    Microcephalin:






    ASPM:

    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Websites, Articles, Books on the Existence of Race

    Hello everyone, I was hoping that the intelligent members of this forum could point me in the direction of understanding genetics and race more thoroughly. Specifically if one could show me where I could begin to learn more about debunking the idea that there is no race and genetic/biological differences of race. Websites, articles, books, whatever. Give me a primer into understanding race and scientists/theories who believe in the difference of race. I am generally ignorant in this area and wish to learn more and be able to have some firepower against those who claim we are all one race and there is no difference between us. Ive began reading threads on this forum but much of it seems beyond my grasp, I need to work my way into.

    Any sources you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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    Last Post: Tuesday, August 26th, 2008, 01:52 AM

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