Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 47

Thread: Modern Genetics Show That Anglo-Saxons Compose Only 5% of Modern Day British DNA Markers

  1. #21
    Senior Member BurgMeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 @ 06:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scottish issued from Germanised-Slavic Vikings
    Ancestry
    Borderlands
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Coldstream
    Gender
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    Ashkenazi was a germanic tribe. From Ash the tree of life of aryan mythology and Kennaz which means knowledge.

    I repeat Oppenheimer is a name used by jews.


    (I am not christian anymore, but I do understand what they write and in that interpretation I have nothing against it. I simply oppose the common interpretation as it is a jewish weapon do destroy european culture.)
    Well, that's mainly what the Talmud says about Ashkenaz's etymology.
    Babylonian tablets also speak of the Kingdom of Ashkuzu'....Cimmerians probably.

    It is used by Jews.....indeed...However....Oppenheimer 's autosomal DNA is more British than Jewish.....He isn't a religious man either....
    http://forums.skadi.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=35100&datel  ine=1263407728

  2. #22
    Senior Member beowulf wodenson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 @ 11:38 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Saxon Southron
    Ancestry
    Angelcynn/Gaeilge/Deutsch
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    State
    Kentucky Kentucky
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Family
    Married parent
    Occupation
    coal miner
    Politics
    Folkish/Libertarian/Secessionist
    Religion
    Heathen (Fyrnsidu/"Odinist")
    Posts
    480
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Hmm. A strange idea that even a small elite invader population of Anglo-Saxons could conquer most of Britain, subjugate the Welsh, and thoroughly impose their language and culture so completely that very little of the "British" language survives even in place names across England.
    This Oppenheimer's data seem to be in stark contrast to studies I've read about several years ago (that have no doubt been posted here before):

    English and Welsh are races apart


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2076470.stm

    Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons.

    The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.
    Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English


    It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.

    And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh. Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical.
    Other theories have had it that the Anglo-Saxons practiced a form of "apartheid" on the Welsh to preserve their own genetic dominance:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1635457/

    The role of migration in the Anglo-Saxon transition in England remains controversial. Archaeological and historical evidence is inconclusive, but current estimates of the contribution of migrants to the English population range from less than 10,000 to as many as 200,000. In contrast, recent studies based on Y-chromosome variation posit a considerably higher contribution to the modern English gene pool (50–100%). Historical evidence suggests that following the Anglo-Saxon transition, people of indigenous ethnicity were at an economic and legal disadvantage compared to those having Anglo-Saxon ethnicity. It is likely that such a disadvantage would lead to differential reproductive success. We examine the effect of differential reproductive success, coupled with limited intermarriage between distinct ethnic groups, on the spread of genetic variants. Computer simulations indicate that a social structure limiting intermarriage between indigenous Britons and an initially small Anglo-Saxon immigrant population provide a plausible explanation of the high degree of Continental male-line ancestry in England.
    Others, of course, dispute that notion, arguing instead the English invaders and Welsh subjects mixed to a large degree (is there some sort of ideological/political impetus behind these constradictory conclusions to what ought be hard science....?!):

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13752-germanic-invaders-may-not-have-ruled-by-apartheid.html

    When a strong Germanic signal was discovered in the Y-chromosome of British men, geneticists at University College London suggested that enslavement and apartheid imposed by Saxon invaders was responsible.
    It was an idea that, given 20th-century European history, had a particular resonance.
    The argument is, that from AD 430 to 730, the Germanic conquerors of Britain formed an elite, with a servant underclass of native Britons. Inter-marriage was restricted, and the invaders and their genes flourished.
    "But it is just not necessary to assume an apartheid-like system," argues John Pattison of the University of South Australia in Adelaide. "The evidence is compatible with the idea of a much more integrated society."
    My 'apologies' if these links and articles have already been posted many times.
    At any rate, all this is very interesting to an ignorant layman like me, helps me understand the origins of my ancestral heritage.

  3. #23
    Senior Member BurgMeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 @ 06:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scottish issued from Germanised-Slavic Vikings
    Ancestry
    Borderlands
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Coldstream
    Gender
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    The BBC article is way too old to be considered as valuable information.
    http://forums.skadi.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=35100&datel  ine=1263407728

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, February 20th, 2017 @ 11:02 AM
    Ethnicity
    Dutch
    Gender
    Posts
    526
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    A few things come to mind:

    Doesn't Oppenheimer split Haplogroup R1b into several subclades, meaning he would already distinguish between the R1b found in typically Celtic areas and the R1b found in typically Germanic areas? (And all those in between?) The fact that R1b is huge and can be subdivided cannot have eluded Oppenheimer.

    I recall Oppenheimer suggested that the reason England came to be so Germanic, while absorbing relatively few Anglo-Saxons (and Vikings), is because he believes there has been a Germanic presence in England going back much further than is commonly understood. In fact, he says that the predecessor to the English language was spoken by (Germanic) Belgic tribes in England well before Roman times. Méldmir already spoke of this at the beginning of the thread. That's why I would like to refer to the thread dealing with Doggerland, where the ancient Germanic presence in England is also discussed. Ocko already alluded to it.

    With this in mind I would say Oppenheimer is certainly not "anti-Germanic". In fact, he makes a stronger case for the Germanic identity of England, as well as its legitimacy. Basically, if what he says is true, then there wasn't so much a hostile takeover of England by Germanics (in the form of Anglo-Saxons and Vikings), but a gradual (and imaginably relatively peaceful) expansion of Germanic presence.

    Also, I do not believe Oppenheimer's Jewish ancestry is relevant in this matter.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Archeopteryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 08:08 AM
    Ethnicity
    Icelandic
    Ancestry
    Icelandic, Finnish
    Subrace
    Trønder
    Country
    Australia Australia
    Gender
    Family
    Married parent
    Politics
    None
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    49
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    I read Oppenheimer's book in a piece-meal fashion as it is neigh impossible to follow. His book was tedious and repetitive and almost incoherent in places. In a positive light however, he is one of the first to have published a book on the migration patterns of early European populations based on Y & Mito studies.

    From what I could gather, he seems to believe based on his studies that modern day Brits are essentially descended from Iberian stock with admixes from Saxony and the Celts but predominantly Iberian. Perhaps his agenda was to create some sort of controversy for better media exposure to sell more books?

  6. #26
    Senior Member BurgMeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 @ 06:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scottish issued from Germanised-Slavic Vikings
    Ancestry
    Borderlands
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Coldstream
    Gender
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Do you honestly think that Bryan Sykes' books are any less repetitive?
    http://forums.skadi.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=35100&datel  ine=1263407728

  7. #27
    Senior Member Archeopteryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 7th, 2012 @ 08:08 AM
    Ethnicity
    Icelandic
    Ancestry
    Icelandic, Finnish
    Subrace
    Trønder
    Country
    Australia Australia
    Gender
    Family
    Married parent
    Politics
    None
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    49
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    I have not read his (Sykes) books. Every time I ask at the bookshop there are none in stock.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BurgMeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 @ 06:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scottish issued from Germanised-Slavic Vikings
    Ancestry
    Borderlands
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Coldstream
    Gender
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Same issue for me.
    Bought it on Waterstone's website.
    http://forums.skadi.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=35100&datel  ine=1263407728

  9. #29
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, March 1st, 2012 @ 07:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Politics
    National Capitalist
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    868
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BurgMeister View Post
    The BBC article is way too old to be considered as valuable information.
    If human genetics have changed since 2002 it must have passed me by. If you can prove the data is wrong then it becomes irrelevant. Otherwise it remains on the table.

    On a somewhat related line of thinking, there was recently another thread on this site pointing out that new genetic evidence now seems to show that most Europeans are descended from Neolithic invaders, not Palaeolithic natives. Similarly the claims on the DNA evidence for and against Neanderthal heritage in modern Europids have been all over the place.

    On this particular subject, DNA evidence is the only thing which argues against a massive invasion and replacement of Celtic speakers with Germanic speakers. And even there there have been claims that the evidence supports both sides. So i remain sceptical until the genetic evidence becomes a lot more clear cut.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  10. #30
    Senior Member BurgMeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 @ 06:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scottish issued from Germanised-Slavic Vikings
    Ancestry
    Borderlands
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Coldstream
    Gender
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    If human genetics have changed since 2002 it must have passed me by. If you can prove the data is wrong then it becomes irrelevant. Otherwise it remains on the table.
    Well, subclades have been entirely reclassified since then.
    The dates have changed for most of these subclades.
    Haplogroup R1b has become a huge mess.

    R1b1c9 has become R1b1b2a1a....E3b has become E1b1b, etc, etc.....
    http://forums.skadi.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=35100&datel  ine=1263407728

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genetics of Modern Human Origins and Differentiation
    By Euclides in forum Population Genetics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Monday, April 10th, 2006, 03:25 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Friday, November 4th, 2005, 02:20 PM
  3. Y chromosomes rewrite British history Anglo-Saxons' genetic stamp weaker...
    By Glenlivet in forum Y-Chromosome (Y-DNA) Haplogroups
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sunday, August 15th, 2004, 09:54 AM
  4. Modern Genetics and the Basques
    By Euclides in forum Population Genetics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, July 4th, 2004, 08:05 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, April 18th, 2004, 09:13 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •