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Thread: Scots Made Official Ethnic Group

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    As for Irish, they appear in various shows and films, though off the top of my head, I can't think of any specific examples
    How could you have forgotten about Father Ted? It's the single most funny and most stereotypical self-parody of the Irish.

    The only regional US accent we're overexposed to is that of New York.
    Does it surprise you? Many of the TV shows, especially the sitcoms are written and produced by New York Jews. Considering how they're 12% of the population of the city and at 972,000 the highest number of Jews in any community, it is quite literally New York.

    What is even better in many of those series is that it's New York Jews writing a serious where New York Jews feature quite prominently, whether it be as actors and/or as characters, Friends was a particularly notorious example thereof.

    My mother can tell between Glasgow and Edinburgh accents, even though she's never been or met anyone from there (that I know of).
    That is pretty impressive, I've met one or the other Scot who has lost the ability to distinguish between the two as they are levelled as we speak. Actual Scotland is also blurry as to where accent ends and dialect begins; this was especially true in Aberdeen where Scottish Standard English of Aberdonian provenience and Doric Scots mingled.

    Well, the dumbest comments in this thread were made when two Scottish people both claimed Americans confuse the Scottish with the English more frequently (in fact infinitely more frequently) than they confuse Scottish with the Irish.
    If that is their personal experience, and they have themselves been mistaken for English more often than for Irish, that hardly makes it a dumb comment. American perception of Scots in America may differ greatly from American perception of Scots in the UK or indeed English perception of American perception of Scots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    How could you have forgotten about Father Ted? It's the single most funny and most stereotypical self-parody of the Irish.
    Yeah, but I don't know if it airs in the US. In fact, I don't really know what non-US shows air over there at all. But I think there are enough Scots in popular US shows (The Simpsons, Star Trek etc.) for Scottish to be a fairly familiar accent to them.

    Does it surprise you? Many of the TV shows, especially the sitcoms are written and produced by New York Jews. Considering how they're 12% of the population of the city and at 972,000 the highest number of Jews in any community, it is quite literally New York.
    No, it doesn't surprise me. But the accent itself is incredibly distinctive. It seems to be stronger among Jews and Italian-Americans (and there's a slight difference between the two -- the Italians sounding overall less whiny, but more aggressive). On the show Rescue Me, Irish Americans also have it, but I suspect it's highly influenced by Jewish and Italian immigrants. Tons of movies are set in LA, but I've never really noticed an LA accent.

    If that is their personal experience, and they have themselves been mistaken for English more often than for Irish, that hardly makes it a dumb comment.
    But the point-blank denial of a widely known phenomenon, (deliberate) misinterpretation of an example I provided as being my entire case, and the subsequent condescension were all fairly dumb things.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edie View Post
    I always know when some indignant over-sensitive Scottish bloviating is coming; it has all the tedious predictability of the same angry victim noise from our cherished racial minorities. Yes, there are some geographically challenged Yanks who call the UK England, and refer to Hugh Grant's accent as 'British', but it is to be expected, really. Why it spurs legion chip-on-the-shoulder would-be Celts to anger is quite beyond me. I find it embarrassing, actually.

    There are really two Scotlands: Highland Scotland where all the kilts-bagpipes-Gaelic clichés have their origins, and the industrious Lowlands of dour Presbyterians and the Scottish Enlightenment. The former is often associated with Ireland, and the latter with England -- which is quite appropriate really, given the provenance of the people who make up those respective areas.

    The Highland culture is the most recognisable outside the UK itself, so the Irish association wins out, I'm afraid. Ironically, it was opportunistic Lowlanders who appropriated the culture of the people they had previously referred to as 'wild Irish' and turned it into a symbol of all Scotland. It created a false solidarity between Highlander and Lowlander as cultural bothers against the manifest evils of the English, when in fact it was the Lowlanders who had always been the main persecutors of the Highlanders, not the English. This really is a perfect illustration of Scottish self-obsession: the national tendency is to think that everybody is as against us as we are them, but in reality, nobody cares. Honestly, English people don't think about us all that much. The Scots who are unfathomably convinced that they do put me in mind of a deluded little mouse trying to annoy a sleeping dog that just doesn't care.

    Forgive my irreverence, but I was once called an "Edinburgh Sassenach" by someone from Fife, of all places, and ever since I have found it quite impossible to take such people seriously.
    You were called a sassenach? Oh well, boo hoo. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for those who use what one person called them as an excuse to hit out at everyone. Do you even know what sassenach means? And for your information, not all Fifers are the same. I hold no harsh feelings for those who are not from Fife. In fact, I only hold harsh feelings for those who throw insults at me, my family or my friends. So don't let what one uneducated twonk who clearly doesn't know what the word "sassenach" means cloud your views of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witta View Post
    Scottish people are to be officially recognised as a distinct ethnic group under new guidelines for monitoring racial and ethnic equality.

    The Scots, the English and the Welsh, will now be able to affirm their national identity on official forms. Census forms and job applications have until now only allowed groupings like Asians, Chinese and Africans to specify their ethnicity.

    The move should result in closer monitoring of how Scots are treated. It is also expected to make job hunting fairer enabling greater racial equality in the workplace. The new move will also crackdown on public sector employers to promote racial equality. Private companies will also come under close scrutiny.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3387749.stm

    This raises the question of whether such an entity as the British nation exists, or whether the UK is a composite of four different nations. British is not a term used to describe an ethnic group or language: British is the description of the nationality of the various peoples of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as citizens of the British state.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astrid Runa View Post
    You were called a sassenach? Oh well, boo hoo. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for those who use what one person called them as an excuse to hit out at everyone. Do you even know what sassenach means? And for your information, not all Fifers are the same. I hold no harsh feelings for those who are not from Fife. In fact, I only hold harsh feelings for those who throw insults at me, my family or my friends. So don't let what one uneducated twonk who clearly doesn't know what the word "sassenach" means cloud your views of all.
    I tacked that comment on at the end as a bit of flippancy; it was not meant to be taken seriously as the actual reason for my opinion of the belligerent anti-English Scots I describe. I mentioned where the person was from to show how silly and arbitrary is the division that these ultra-Scots like to make between themselves and the rest of us; someone from Fife really shouldn't be self-identifying as more 'Scottish' than people from the very proximal Edinburgh.

    And the thing is, the person who said it probably has a better understanding of the Sassenach label than do most Scots, who mistakenly believe that it pertains only to English people, when in fact Gaelic speakers use it to refer to English people and anglophone (particularly Lowland) Scots alike. What I find most amusing is that I'm not even from Edinburgh, I just lived there while I was at the (largely SE Englander attended) university. But I find that when you associate with anything 'English', you can't help attracting such epithets from these bizarre people. They're like the self-appointed Scot police, making sure that Scots affect an über-Scottish persona and basically annoy the crap out of everyone else in the country and make us all look like idiots.

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    The Scots, the English and the Welsh, will now be able to affirm their national identity on official forms.
    At last!

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