Guten Tag Aus Lothringen

[Lothringen]

I discovered your site making a search about Arminius/Hermann in google. As your goal is quite similar to our local "identity group"
www.kerkant.com but with a larger approach I choose to register. I was very please to see Elsass-Lothringen displayed as a region.

But I had difficulties to choose my ethny. I could have simply choose german but in the sens of "germanic people" we are all and I was disappointed not to find Franks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks

Because in Frank-reich German is often assimilated as Alamanni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allemanni, a traditionnal rival ethny (sometimes allies, sometimes ennemies) or citizen of Germany (which is only a part of Germania)

Nor I identify myself to "Gauls" (Celts) from "France" nor "Allemand" from "Allemagne" but as Lorrain and just as our old Lord http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_of_Austria said to his son Otto, "Renoncez à tout s'il le faut, mais ne renoncez jamais à la Lorraine"
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ier_d%27Autriche#Citation

As "legendary" ancestor (just like Abraham for Hebrew) I honor the memory of:

- Hermann the Cherusci (one of the tribes that would later forms the Frankish Alliance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius

- Merovech the Merovingian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovech

- Clodwig (Merovech grandson)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_I

- Siegbert of Austrasia (Clodwig grandson)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigebert_I

- Brunhilda Wisigoth princess (and Siegbert wife)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunhilda_of_Austrasia

The 2 last married and rules at less then 40km from my home and born place !

Hermann & Siegbert inspired Siegfried, Brunhilda the Walkyrie Brynhild. Her and Clodwig choose conversion the the catholic church.
(Siegbert was baptismed as a baby but kept allegeance to Church).

So I follow my Lords faith, but in a certain way I fully believe in the Niebelungen Lied as this is nothing else than the legendary adaptation of their HISTORICAL life. I walked in the places were Germans clash with the Huns, Siegfried and Brynhyld married, crossed the Rhein and all was awesome.

I hope no minarets will never spoiled these places.

[Blod og Jord]

Welcome to Skadi, Lothringen.

[GroeneWolf]

Welcome.

[Lothringen]

As 2 people suggested me I remove the jacobin, kingslayer flag, as neither:

- Frankish Kingdom
- Austrasia
- Lotharingia
- Carolingian Empire

are available, I will temporary keep "Holy Roman Empire". But I would have like the see the Lys of France, just like on Karl der Gross painting.

[Hersir]

Welcome to Skadi forum, Lothringen

[Untersberger]

Schön das du da bist Herr Lothringen,

Wie gehts alles in Diedenhofen heutzutage?

Perhaps you are in a good position to help me understand the complexity of the provincial dispute of Elsass-Lothringen (Alsace-Lorraine) between Germania and Frankreich..

I understand the 30 years war and this treaty but I do not understand why Paris insists a German cultural area is French? It is a kind of parallel to the situation with Northern Ireland (Ulster) and London ??

Well !! Please correct me if you think I have some information wrong.

Most of Elsass is German by culture and French language was forced on the young people especially after WW2 when the Paris Government Banned German from being spoken completely and only French allowed for school and for work. But Elsässer people still consider themselves Germanic and not French. Many still speak German now that the tensions have cooled off since the war.

Much of Lothringen (Lorraine) however is traditionally French by culture and language except for the area around Diedenhofen (Thionville) which was as German culturally as most of Elsass.... Is this accurate and would you agree?

Best regards

Fritz
ps- These are Not very popular in Paris

http://www.zazzle.com/kallanberg/gif...08179795368769

[Ahnenerbe]

As 2 people suggested me I remove the jacobin, kingslayer flag, as neither:

- Frankish Kingdom
- Austrasia
- Lotharingia
- Carolingian Empire

are available,

I don't see why you're looking that far behind in history for the Lotharingian empire, etc... Less than a century ago was still the Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen which was one of the brightest and most prosperous periods (1871-1918) this state has known. It was then followed by the very shortly lived independent Republic of Alsace-Lorraine.

Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen, 1871-1918 / Independent Republic of Alsace-Lorraine, 11-21 November 1918

I understand the 30 years war and this treaty but I do not understand why Paris insists a German cultural area is French? It is a kind of parallel to the situation with Northern Ireland (Ulster) and London ??

No. People here are not nearly as nasty

Most of Elsass is German by culture and French language was forced on the young people especially after WW2 when the Paris Government Banned German from being spoken completely and only French allowed for school and for work. But Elsässer people still consider themselves Germanic and not French. Many still speak German now that the tensions have cooled off since the war.

Much of Lothringen (Lorraine) however is traditionally French by culture and language except for the area around Diedenhofen (Thionville) which was as German culturally as most of Elsass.... Is this accurate and would you agree?

Germanic Lorraine is in a very poor shape... The Alsatians are keeping their identity much better, even if it's in great danger too. It's true that Lorraine as a whole is traditionally more Romanized, but it is actually the Eastern parts of it which are actually the more Germanic (the area of Saarguemines/Saargemuend, Forbach, St Avold, Creutzwald, etc). Diedenhofen lies at the Western end, plus since it has always been an industrial city it has been long degraded by immigration.

The whole area around the Moselle river between Diedenhofen and Metz has been racially ruined for a long time already through the immigration of Poles, Spanish and Italians, which traces back to the beginning of the XXth century. The rural areas along the border are the more preserved.

[Lothringen]

Schön das du da bist Herr Lothringen,
I understand the 30 years war and this treaty but I do not understand why Paris insists a German cultural area is French? It is a kind of parallel to the situation with Northern Ireland (Ulster) and London ??

Much of Lothringen (Lorraine) however is traditionally French by culture and language except for the area around Diedenhofen (Thionville) which was as German culturally as most of Elsass.... Is this accurate and would you agree?

I would not compare Lothringen to Ireland splitted between Dublin and London.
It should (but shamely it isn't) be compared to Switzenland and Belgium (or "Oberlothringen" if you prefer).
Just as Switzerland is splitted between "german, french and italian", Lorraine is between "Bailiwick"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailiwick
"Nancy", "Vôge" and "Allemagne", later came Duchy of Bar.
Most of aristocraty came from frankish conqueror who sometimes choose to get rid of their germanic langage (from which Luxemburgish "Platt" is coming) to "low latin" (or old French) to communicate easier with the peasans previously enslaved by the Romans.

The "allignement" between let say Prussia and France was not so evident as both propaganda would like to make people believe. In fact in 1870 & 1914, Austria had more legitimity on Lorraine than France or Prussia/Deutsch Kaiserreich.

Speaking german or french doesn't give any legitimity by itself.
If this was the case, Belgium should be shared between Nederland and France; Switzerland between Italia, Germany or Austria and France.

We see Alsacian as cousin, just as Saarlander or Luxemburger. Do not forget there is a mountain chain between Elsass and Lothringen.
Moreover Lothringen was traditionnally catholic and Elsass protestant, but both applying cult freedom to each other and to Judaïsm (present in "Autrasia" BEFORE Franks converted).

Splitting the duchy is out of question. Now, it can be debate weither it should be autonome, french region or german land.
Traditionnaly the Dukes managed to keep the 3 as in Heilige Reich, the Kaïser was more a referee, umpire, punctual crusade leader than a "Fuhrer" and the french geopolitic made difference between vassal region and "domaine royal".

Until rise of "absolute monarchy" between Louis XIII & XIV, this worked fine.

Therefore, I prefer speaking about FRANKISH culture allover Lorraine rather than making any artificial bounder between "deutsch" and "française" culture.

I suppose that today Celts have a similar point of view.
Britanny is...Breizh. There is no point to argue between french, wallish or Irish culture, just because the French Republic possess the land and the Irish one has a less influenced celtic culture. Neither there is a point for Lorraine, Deutchland and France.

Lancelot adventure maybe written in French, it is a part of Britanny culture. It start happen in Broceliande, not in Paris, not in Dublin, not in London.

Joan of Arc was born at Domremy, Brunhild converted and married in Metz, Hildegarde died in Theodonis Villa (Diden Hoffen / Thionville), Otto Habsburg-Lothingen married in Nancy...
and despite on the fact this guy was born in Vienna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...ke_of_Lorraine
any book of Lorraine History mention him as a National Hero.

By the way just as Nantes is not in today Britanny region, la Mothe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mothe-en-Bassigny
is unfairly excluded from Lorraine

[Siebenbürgerin]

A belated welcome, Lothringen.

I think the ethnicity labels in the choosable menu are the most commonly encountered, but there's the possibility to enter your own choice and I'm seeing you've used it.

I've read your postings and find them interesting. I hope you're enjoying the stay.