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Thread: Is Hiring Prejudice Racism? Or Common Sense?

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    Is Hiring Prejudice Racism? Or Common Sense?

    Will Offensicht, Scragged, December 9, 2009

    The New York Times is wringing its hands about the disproportionate effect of the Obama Recession on blacks. Their teaser for “In Job Hunt, College Degree Can’t Close Racial Gap” said:

    There is ample evidence that race remains a significant obstacle for African-Americans in the job market, even those with degrees from respected colleges. [emphasis added]

    How stupid does the Times think businesses are? Every private business wants to get the most possible work out of every employee and put the least amount of pay and benefits back in. Thus, when a manager interviews a candidate whom he thinks will either give less or cost more relative to other potential hires, he tends to move on to the next applicant. This is particularly true in times of economic distress when there are lots of candidates for every job.

    Government Lies About Racial Group Skills

    Why is the Times surprised that the recession would be harder on black people? Hasn’t the Times heard of “race norming?”

    Back in the 1980’s, the US Department of Labor started promoting the use of its General Aptitude Test Battery (GATB) to state employment services. When a state agency is trying to get unemployed people back to work, it’s helpful to have a way to rate their skills and qualifications.

    The GATB was developed in 1947 and was refined over the years to the point that it could usefully rate people for 12,000 different skill categories. Developing the test was a lot of work, but administering it doesn’t cost very much. State agencies started administering the GATB and sending the results to interviews along with the candidates.

    Unfortunately, there was a fly in the ointment—blacks scored significantly below whites on the GATB and Hispanics scored someplace in between. Hiring based on raw test scores would have been inconsistent with the government’s affirmative action goals. Accordingly, some bureaucrat conceived the idea of adjusting scores according to an applicant’s race. If a black person took the test, his score would be compared only with the scores of other blacks who took the test. Thus, if a black person received a score of 90%, which was supposed to mean that he was in the top 10% of candidates who took the test, it really meant he was in the top 10% of black candidates, not that he was in the top 10% of the overall candidate pool. An employment web site puts it another way:
    As an example, three candidates take the test—one white, one black and one Hispanic. All three applicants achieve identical scores of 300 on the GATB. On the referral sent to prospective employers, however, the three candidates’ scores will appear quite different. The black test-taker will be listed as scoring 83, meaning he or she is in the 83rd percentile of all black applicants. The Hispanic will receive a score of 67 and the white a 45. Or, in other words, to be in the 50th percentile, the score for a black, Hispanic and white applicant, respectively, will be 276, 295 and 308.

    In other words, after spending large sums of taxpayer dollars developing a test that can accurately measure as many as 12,000 different job skills, the government fudges test scores reported to employers to make minority candidates seem better qualified than they actually are. The web site quoted above says that methods of faking scores are “widely described in the literature on testing.” They have to be, of course. Computers weren’t as available back when data faking was introduced so scores had to be tweaked manually. People who graded the tests had to be told how to “adjust” the scores.

    How long did it take for businesses to find out what was going on? Even if the methods of lying systematically to employers weren’t published, business folk talk to each other.

    A Bum Hire Costs a Bunch

    People in government generally have no clue how much it costs a business to make a bad hiring decision.

    Employees cost money, time, benefits, and grief. The only reason ever to hire anyone at all is that the value of that person’s work to you is more than what the person costs. Whenever a business hires anyone, they expect that person to add net value to the firm. In other words, every employee must be worth more than what he or she costs.

    Suppose you’re looking for a delivery truck driver. You interview applicants, you look at their scores, you call former employers, and you hire someone. That person doesn’t work out. You’ve lost your earlier pool of applicants; the best of the ones you didn’t hire will have found work so you start over. You’ve lost whatever the bum cost you, and you lost the value he was supposed to add, not to mention irritating customers because of late deliveries. A bad hire is very expensive for any business.

    Governments don’t care because people have to deal with them and they can always raise taxes to pay for employees who don’t do much work. That being the case, employment agencies don’t appreciate how much businesses resent being lied to about the qualifications of the candidates the government sends them. Businesses have figured out how to un-fudge the data, however, so they contain their resentment. Over time, they figure out how much the government inflates the score of a black driver or a Hispanic roofer. They receive the fudged government scores, make the necessary mental adjustment in the negative to get a truthful picture of the candidate, hire accordingly and get on with life.

    There’s a lot more risk when you’re hiring at the top of the food chain. Suppose you’re filling a slot that needs someone from a “respected college” as the Times put it. That person’s salary will be greater and training costs can be immense. One of our friends went to work for a bank just out of college. He spent the first two years in full-time training, on full salary, before he was able to do a lick of work for them. This is not unusual with high-end hiring.

    Colleges Lie About Racial Group Degrees

    The difficulty is that the “respected colleges” lie about the degrees they award. Every college that gets federal money in any form, including loans to their students, has to toe the government’s line and admit minorities on an “affirmative action” basis. How long did it take for employers to realize that “respected colleges” offered two types of degrees, one for blacks and one for everyone else? Depending on the way they fudge applicant’s scores during the admission process, some colleges award three or four kinds of degree depending on how finely they slice the applicant pool.

    Suppose you’re hiring and your group is eligible for a major bonus if you make your numbers. If this new hire doesn’t work out, your bonus will be reduced because your group won’t perform as well, so you hire carefully.

    The candidate’s Yale or Princeton degree looks OK, all the profs give him rave reviews, but he’s black. You know you’re being lied to because Harvard and Princeton always lie about black graduates. It’s your money on the line, if this guy blows it, you’ll miss your bonus. What do you do?

    You do exactly what the white students and professors did at Princeton while Michelle Obama was there. She described it eloquently:

    “My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my ‘blackness’ than ever before,” the future Mrs. Obama wrote in her thesis introduction. “I have found that at Princeton, no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my white professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don’t belong. Regardless of the circumstances under which I interact with whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be black first and a student second.” [emphasis added]

    White Princetonians knew that the Princeton administration systematically lies about black students’ qualifications. Michelle wasn’t really a student, she was a “quota queen.” Her colleagues knew it and they let her know they knew it; those selfsame colleagues are now running major corporations and making high-level hiring decisions today, and what they learned in college hasn’t been forgotten. Remember the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz? His head was full of straw, he didn’t have a brain. The Wizard took care of that—by awarding him a diploma! Unfortunately, a diploma does not a brain make, and all employers know it, even if the government hasn’t yet caught on.

    The Times said, “even those with degrees from respected colleges.” What they don’t realize is that people who hire candidates from “respected colleges” are hiring at a higher level where they have a lot more to lose from an employee who isn’t as qualified as he seems. By now, everybody at that level knows that “respected colleges” lie about minority graduates; a Yale minority degree is actually worth, well, about what a normal community college degree might be.

    What the Times should have said was, “especially those with degrees from respected colleges.” Nowadays, an affirmative-action diploma is proof of nothing. Minorities who truly are the equal of anyone else and honestly did all the work to rightfully deserve a top-grade degree—and no one can deny the existence of black people like Thomas Sowell, Condoleeza Rice, and Colin Powell who fully deserve their membership in America’s intellectual elite—are being cheated by the university’s awarding that same degree to the less-qualified and diluting its value.

    What are employers to do when they’re lied to? Pass by on the other side. When in doubt, it’s safest not to hire the minority person because you know you’re being lied to. That’s another way affirmative action holds blacks down.

    [Editor’s Note: “In Job Hunt, College Degree Can’t Close Racial Gap” can be read here.]
    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives...ring_preju.php

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    I really can't express how angry this makes me and how badly I wish I had a country to go to where I would be at least treated equally. I have been discriminated against so many times. I've been denied welfare, denied jobs, denied promotions, denied the ability to buy a house under an FHA low income loan, threatened, harassed etc. all on the basis that I'm a white male who is intelligent and doesn't do crime.

    For example if I'm homeless with no job but an intelligent white male I will not get welfare. If I have a home and a job (say minimal wage or something) but I'm mentally retarded or a minority I can get welfare. Similar with work I just end up doing twice the work or three times the work, being smarter, more competent etc. in comparison to co-workers yet actually get treated worse because people get jelous of you. It's cultural marxism. It's not just race- its that the inferior is praised, rewarded upliffted and the superior is hated and torn down. Take from the rich, give to the poor, make jokes and harass the pretty blond but its wrong to make jokes against a black person. Hate the athletic jock, its wrong to make fun of the weakling, hate the genius- call him a nerd and beat him up- it's wrong to make fun of a retarded person. What baffles me is how can any country or society be successful with these kinds of attitudes.

    I would fight and die for any nation that would stand up with a different cultural attitude of praising the best among us. I get to the point where my hands are shaking and I'm about ready to have a nervous breakdown when I hear stuff like this or where I feel sick like I'm going to throw up. That's how strongly I feel against it. And I guess I just write the same stuff over and over but its like words just aren't enough. I could write about it all day and it wouldn't be enough. Cultural Marxism is a sickness and I hate it with every fiber in my body.

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    (...) the inferior is praised, rewarded upliffted and the superior is hated and torn down (...)
    I'm surprised you're calling this "cultural marxism", for while this clearly is a symptome, even a manifestation, the root in my opinion is more, it's deeply rooted in the culture, the collective thought of the western world: The judeo-christian morality and ethos, the glorification of weakness and masochism.
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    Hiring black people into a work environment is risky. About 90% of the time they will cause serious problems, especially hindering the highest quality employees you already have. Blacks are jealous, combative, less intelligent, arrogant, and cripple a business by always crying racism or by disallowing the efficiency that could be achieved by having one common culture in the workplace. Businesses which cater to higher quality clientele will suffer greatly, because the lowest-common-denominator factor will kick in and the rest of the employees will lower their language, efficiency, and mentality to the low standards set by the negro. The best clients will notice that your performance has slipped and you might lose their business.

    Negroes and Mexicans have lowered American standards and culture and atrophied the thought processes of European Americans who could be held to much higher standards. It's very evident that Whites who have the most contact with these people tend to seem more physically and mentally degenerate than those who live in homogeneous areas. It's pure tyranny to force us to live among these animals. Europe take note: use whatever means necessary to prevent the EU oligarchy from moving these people in. They destroy your very souls and those of your children, even if they don't wind up raping or murdering them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by totenlicht View Post
    I'm surprised you're calling this "cultural marxism", for while this clearly is a symptome, even a manifestation, the root in my opinion is more, it's deeply rooted in the culture, the collective thought of the western world: The judeo-christian morality and ethos, the glorification of weakness and masochism.
    Correct. The first Jew attempt to enslave others via this ideology was Christianity and such values are found in the Bible. In the book of Romans it says that the strong should bear the burden of the weak for example. Marxism is just the same old thing in a new package. I use it as the best term because of the phrase "from those according to their ability, to those according to their needs". I address all of this in my book. It is hard to put a name on it because the people who support it are so two faced and sneaky. Marxism is a race war- weaken all others so Jews can be their master. Jews invented Christianity yet they were the only ones not forced to convert! Jews invented Communism yet were given special status in the soviet union and most of them went to Israel and America to live in a non-Communist country and were the first to flee the collapse. Jews teach one thing to everyone else, teach another to their children. the other part of it is the general age we are in- a culture defined by the masses of degenerates.

    Not all blacks, mexicans etc. are bad employees. I've worked in many diverse areas. The main problem I've had is with the lower standards and double standards and the culture of letting them get away with everything, actually encouraging them to get away with everything. We could function in a multiracial society if we treated everyone equally. That would mean if that one rare black person actually in all reality is capable and can perform to expected standards and get along well with others then he will be hired. I have no problem with diversity if such people can pull their own weight (though even here sometimes it causes misunderstandings and less cohesiveness). The problem today is we can't get anything done.

    I worked in a paper factory. I was hired on for basic labor. They hired a white retarded guy. More work got done without him than with him there. He was a burden and got paid the same as I for such. They fired him. His social worker called up and grilled them about why he was fired. The next day he was back to work. That's how it works at the bottom. The top is similar and was demonstrated at the exact same job- our supervisor did very little work, harassed people etc. When he quit more work got done and the employees were happier! This guy was getting paid good money to pull down the production of the plant and quality of life for everyone. I guess though because he knew people or somehow got in good with people who hire managers he was accepted. At the top most people get their positions because they are rich, in the good old boys club etc. Most expensive educations are not based on competence but just a way to buy yourself into a good job. The emphasis on quality, producitivity, results, civilized behavior, standards etc. is almost totally erased in our society today.

    A lot of it is legilasted by law. It's hard to fight, but i honestly think I could run a business better than most of them out there. Though I would need a few civilized people who could work at the top which I guess would be nearly impossible to find. I honestly can't see our society go anywhere exept towards collapse unless some radical ideological change happens- which I doubt. We need to organize, aquire wealth and fight this somehow.

    What the retards don't understand is that when the competent, hard workers go they go too. Their welfare checks and their gravy jobs depend on the productivity of other people. Though I guess a lot of it today is supplemented by technology which has fueld our spiral into incompetence.

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    There is a silver bullet for discrimination. Go back to your own countries.

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    But they claim all the failures of Africans in Africa is from white imperialism somehow!
    Yes I always wondered on that as well- if it is so bad here why do blacks, mexicans etc. fight to come in. You build a wall and they find a way around it. They will do anything to get in yet when they are in they scream racism at every point. If it was really bad they'd go home. Obviously they are better off in a white nation than there own. But where do I have to go? If there was a European naiton for whites only that would accept me I'd move there- no doubt about that. At least they have a home to go to. I guess I can go visit England or Germany and look at all the blacks and muslims that have taken it over.

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    I would rather say that those quota systems which seek to install the maximum number of ethnics are well more discriminating and racist than anything. For college/university admission this often means that a Black with CCC is let in whilst a White with AAB isn't.

    Admission to academic institutions, hiring for work and all that should be based upon merit and qualification. Those with the highest qualification, the best prior merit and the most enthusiasm embodied in one person should be hired. If that happens to mean that 100/100 employees are indigenous, White, Germanics, then so be it. That's in the nature of the thing and necessary to stay competitive, actually.

    There are many things which one can hold against Margaret Thatcher, but one which one can hold to her honour is certainly her remaining steadfast when it came to cabinet composition. Feminist groups pushed for her to let more women into her cabinet, but she refused this, pointing out that she choice her advisors on the basis of merit, not of quotas.

    Easy as that. If the Black is so much higher qualified, then one could talk about it - fact is that as a general rule he is not and only gets in by virtue of a perverse quota system. If there are equal qualifications, the indigenous, Germanic, White should receive the position because one's first obligation should be to serve one's one folk. Why should we serve other people's children whilst letting our own starve? That's just common sense.

    Strangely enough if this goode ol'e meritocracy was put back into place, one'd find that Blacks and other Ethnics would so extremely underperform that it asks the question of fitness for certain jobs in itself. If the Black is most geared to be a cotton picker and the White is most geared to be Prime Minister, so be it.

    The Ideal is of course to get rid of the ethnics in the first place, but I understand where this is not always possible. It'd be fairly difficult in the US, for instance. If you're going to have ethnic minorities in your country, then you might just as well let them be cotton picker if that's what they're best at. What was that again about from each according to their abilities...

    PS: Mrs. Obama was a quota queen. Being Black, combined with being from one of the few rich Black families gave her the ticket to Princeton. I'd wager to say that she got virtually for free what poor, White students need to study 364/24/7 to even get near of achieving (admission and stipend to pay for it).
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    Yes! Exactly! Our current system is more racist than anything we've been guilted for.

    I think the main goal behind the public policy is to mix the races. Once we have a majority population that is racially mixed they probably will let up on a lot of the policies. This may be the elites way to ease conflict between groups within society and pave the way towards more global forms of governing. Though this thinking has many flaws considering the lower elements still are outbreeding the higher elements in society. I don't know anyway I look at it- there's not much logic behind our current social policies. Which makes me think that human stupidity probably plays a greater role than grand conspiracies against us though I see it as a little of both.

    Its a hard problem though. If we didn't have affirmitive action etc. blacks would have no place in our society. Most of them would be starving to death because they can't take care of themselves. Then they would burn down our cities and cause high crime. If we rounded them up and shipped them to Africa or put them behind a giant wall or just left them to die- well majority of people find this morally wrong. So one is left with no good solutions. Personally I'd just offer good welfare benefits but force people to become sterilized as a condition of welfare. Affirmitive action I would have allowed for maybe 20 years or so then phased it out- which they are slowly phasing it out- very slowly though.

    I would guess eventually if enough of us can influence the opinion of the elites that there will be some form of birth control put on welfare people. This would be the start of cleaning up our society. But you have to understand- they also want to stamp out racism because they want to rule over a nice smooth society without lots of division and conflict. The incompetence and dysgenics is just the price they must pay to create a more cohesive populace. Of course hitler was going to do the same thing- but he was going to do it by keeping the blood pure rather than mixing it all together.

    A mixed race individual is more similar to a white, black, asian etc. than whites, blacks, asians are to each other. Therefore their goal would be a majority that is mixed race and minorities of pure groups.

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    Hiring prejudice is not racism. Affirmative action is racism, racism against whites. Having to pick an immigrant over a white person, or be accused of racism, is just crazy.

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