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Thread: Were the Germans Ever Called Dutch?

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    Were the Germans Ever Called Dutch?

    I think I read somewhere the Germans were called Dutch originally. Does anyone know more about that?

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    I think so and sometimes even today some Germans are called Dutch. The Pennsylvania Dutch are called Dutch although they're Germans. I quickly searched and found some information for you.
    I hope it's helpful.

    Dutch

    c.1380, used first of Germans generally, after c.1600 of Hollanders, from M.Du. duutsch, from O.H.G. duit-isc, corresponding to O.E. þeodisc "belonging to the people," used especially of the common language of Germanic people, from þeod "people, race, nation," from P.Gmc. *theudo "popular, national" (see Teutonic), from PIE base *teuta- "people" (cf. O.Ir. tuoth "people," O.Lith. tauta "people," O.Prus. tauto "country," Oscan touto "community"). As a language name, first recorded as L. theodice, 786 C.E. in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. First reference to the German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. The sense was extended from the language to the people who spoke it (in Ger., Diutisklant, ancestor of Deutschland, was in use by 13c.). Sense narrowed to "of the Netherlands" in 17c., after they became a united, independent state and the focus of English attention and rivalry. In Holland, duitsch is used of the people of Germany. The M.E. sense survives in Pennsylvania Dutch, who immigrated from the Rhineland and Switzerland.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Dutch

    German (2)

    "Teuton," 1520s, from L. Germanus, first attested in writings of Julius Caesar, who used Germani to designate a group of tribes in northeastern Gaul, origin unknown, probably the name of an individual tribe. It is perhaps of Gaulish (Celtic) origin, perhaps originally meaning "noisy" (cf. O.Ir. garim "to shout") or "neighbor" (cf. O.Ir. gair "neighbor"). The earlier English word was Almain or Dutch. Their name for themselves was the root word of modern Ger. Deutsch (see Dutch).
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=German

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    "Dutch" and "Deutsch" is etymologically the same word and it has been used for all Continental West Germanics (e.g. Pennsylvania Dutch) until its meaning was narrowed to primarily pertain to the Kingdom of the Netherlands, its people and its languages, Nederlands Nederlands serving as a standard.

    In works of literature, there is further evidence that the German- and Dutch-speaking areas were once considered a coherent language space. In "Gulliver's Travels" by Jonathan Swift, the terms "Low Dutch" and "High Dutch" are used in the sense of "Low German" and "High German". In linguistics, it has been common until 1945 to consider the Netherlandish languages in this way.


    http://forums.skadi.net/photoplog/index.php?n=3702

    Green: Upper German
    Blue: Central German
    Orange: Low German
    Light orange: Dutch
    Rose (light and intense): Frisian
    Light blue: Limburgish

    Representation map of the German dialects in the year 1937. In linguistics, the dialect areas in the Low Countries were considered as part of the German language area. These areas are coloured pale.

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    The English language didn't differentiate between Dutch and German until relatively recently. They were all called Dutch.

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    Nationalty of Guttenberg

    I found an article, and picture of Reichsfreiherr Karl-theodor zu Guttenberg, and must say he does not look like a German...I know that Guttenberg, one of his forefathers, invented the printing press, but he still does not look right to me...he is married to a German Girl, lives in a Castle, and just about owns the town of Guttenberg. I feel he is the person that will bring about the Holy Roman Empire. Want opinions about this matter.

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    Deutsch or Dutch?

    To-ma-to-, To-ma)to- , Po-ta-to-, Po-ta)to-, Deutsch or Dutch? It's all dependent on the pronunciation and dialect inflections of speaker and region. In the U.S. either is acceptable.

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    And we Flemmish were named 'Diets'........

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    I heard that according to some linguists, Dutsch as a language belongs to western-german (it's not mistake-not germanic, but german) branch of languages? All in all, when I hear Dutch I always get supprised how similar it is to German and how many words can I recognise without problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agramer View Post
    I heard that according to some linguists, Dutsch as a language belongs to western-german (it's not mistake-not germanic, but german) branch of languages? All in all, when I hear Dutch I always get supprised how similar it is to German and how many words can I recognise without problems
    Such topics come up and now everywhere online.

    Is Dutch German? Or is German Dutch, as someone recently liked to proof on GW forum...

    I dont consider it very important. Dutch is obviously very closely connected with the North-Germans, or visa versa if someone looks it from a Dutch radical All-Diets nationalist perspective I suppose

    What matters is National identity. Dutch are Dutch and Germans are Germans. Dutch have their own National identity, and that comes first before linguistics. Many Dialects are declining anyway, so the National Languages will become more and more dominating.

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