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Thread: Convergent Selection

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    Convergent Selection

    When reading "A People That Shall Dwell Alone" by Kevin Macdonald he mentions the possibility of convergent selection as the/a cause for Jews in Europe to look European. Although Jews(according to Macdonald) form a genetically seperate population, there are quite some examples of Jews who look for example nordid and you can see differences when you compare Jews living in Europe and Jews living in the Middle-East.

    So I am wondering whether there have been any studies concerning convergent selection within the human species and whether there are any examples thereof. And could it be the cause(or a cause) of the European look of many Jews? If this kind of selection would be possible, it would certainly limit the role of physical anthropology in determining a persons ethnicity or ancestry.
    My knowledge of physical anthropology is quite limited, so I am hoping the experts can explain it to me.

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    I've only read bits of McDonald's stuff but I think he's quite excellent when it comes to documenting histories/details of jewish 'influences' but I'm not so sure about some of the biology bits of his writing, eg. the idea that 'whites' are 'allowing' mass immigration because they are more individualistic; it might even be true, that europeans are genetically more individualistic than mongoloids, and jews might have a stronger 'group' instinct from centuries of being selected to remain as a group when a minority, but I don't think it's even close to being a sufficiently powerful force in either way, eg. in the last 100 years 'whites' still had a sense of 'manifest destiny', ruled the world, and had replaced and wiped out whole continents worth of populations in expansion of their territory and number (not bad for a bunch of supposed 'hyper-individualists'); while in todays world even supposedly genetically 'ultra group conscious' jews are outbreeding at a rate that alarms some (can dig up articles on this if needed). So, it seems more likely to me that the social environment is a stronger factor there than some unproven 'genetic predisposition' (the trouble with sociobiology is you can take whatever current social trend there is, and plausibly claim 'it's genetic').


    Re. 'Convergent selection' making jews look more european - I think this is even less convincing than the above example; to begin with jews are caucasoid; there are some middle easterners who would fit in southern europe OK already, and even some who wouldn't look out of place in northern europe, although not many, and up close you might notice a few differences that made them look out of place .
    Add to that centuries of living together, and plenty of examples of crossing; is it really probable that blonde haired 'nordish jews' are 'pure' jews that just happened to converge in appearance with europeans? it's not even close to likely IMO
    eg
    Gwenyth Paltrow

    David Lee Roth


    they don't even look jewish anymore; compare to a very jewy jew


    Not only do they 'not look jewish' but they look more northern european than would be possible if they didn't have any recent admixture, and I promise that if you dig every example, they will have some (eg. paltrow has dutch ancestry as well as jewish); ask yourself is it really more likely that they came to look like euros. through starting from the above (swarthy, round-headed and big nosed) in a few hundred years, or from very recent gene flow from a northern european who they lived alongside? I don't think it's hard to figure out (knowing that there is always some mixing where populations meet, hence why middle eastern jews also look middle eastern, and east african jews east african)
    It's true that jews form a 'genetically distinct population' amongst europeans but there are plenty of examples who are 'in between' the two showing admixture as well.

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    Genetic tests show that Ashkenazi Jews are mix breeds of an original Jewish population and Europeans. Supposedly the Nazis made Jews look more European by rounding up the most Jewish looking/acting of them and somehow the less Jewish looking Jews more often slipped through the net.

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