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Thread: Zulu Numbers in Boer Spheres

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    Zulu Numbers in Boer Spheres

    [thread split from here]

    Hendrik Verwoerd's response to the 'Winds of Change' speech:

    The tendency in Africa for nations to become independent, and at the same time to do justice to all, does not only mean being just to the black man of Africa, but also to be just to the white man of Africa.

    We call ourselves European, but actually we represent the white men of Africa. They are the people not only in the Union but through major portions of Africa who brought civilisation here, who made the present developments of black nationalists possible. By bringing them education, by showing them this way of life, by bringing in industrial development, by bringing in the ideals which western civilisation has developed itself.

    And the white man came to Africa, perhaps to trade, in some cases, perhaps to bring the gospel; has remained to stay. And particularly we in this southern most portion of Africa, have such a stake here that this is our only motherland, we have no where else to go. We set up a country bare, and the Bantu came in this country and settled certain portions for themselves, and it is in line with the thinking of Africa, to grant those fullest rights which we also with you admit all people should have and believe providing those rights for those people in the fullest degree in that part of southern Africa which their forefathers found for themselves and settled in. But similarly, we believe in balance, we believe in allowing exactly those same full opportunities to remain within the grasp of the white man who has made all this possible.
    Source

    And this is why we should not use blacks, because in so doing we raise them to a higher level. We enabled their numbers to grow exponentially faster then what they would have been able to achieve in the natural order of things, and in the end we supplanted ourselves because of their numerical advantage over our evolutionary advantage.

    PS: Verwoerd was born in Amsterdam.
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Grow exponentially? Most blacks in S-Africa, Zulu's, are immigrants. Last year or so, black former immigrants were bashing on new black immigrants. White police has to intervene.
    "La vie est la vie, c'est-à-dire un combat, pour une nation comme pour un homme"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Grow exponentially? Most blacks in S-Africa, Zulu's, are immigrants. Last year or so, black former immigrants were bashing on new black immigrants. White police has to intervene.
    My dear Rozenstorm, perhaps you should stick to what you know about your country, I'll stick to what I know about my country. The Zulus is 'ethnic' 'South-African' and indigenous to this region, you might find it interesting that they are not the majority of blacks in South-Africa as we have a multitude of 'tribes' (for lack of a better word. And most, certainly the majority of blacks in SA are indigenous to this region (at least when we talk about the last 300 years or so...).
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    The Zulu's (literal) homeland is in Natal, so on one level it could be said they are immigrants by way of border dissolution (by the British Empire's doing). They only became indigenous to the construct of South Africa at large because they were indigenous to the Natalia Republic and consequently also to the British Colony of Natal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    The Zulu's (literal) homeland is in Natal, so on one level it could be said they are immigrants by way of border dissolution (by the British Empire's doing). They only became indigenous to the construct of South Africa at large because they were indigenous to the Natalia Republic and consequently also to the British Colony of Natal.
    Indeed, but if our current borders are considered they are indigenous as they already occupied the land by the time the Trek Boers arrived there.

    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimner View Post
    My dear Rozenstorm, perhaps you should stick to what you know about your country, I'll stick to what I know about my country. The Zulus is 'ethnic' 'South-African' and indigenous to this region, you might find it interesting that they are not the majority of blacks in South-Africa as we have a multitude of 'tribes' (for lack of a better word. And most, certainly the majority of blacks in SA are indigenous to this region (at least when we talk about the last 300 years or so...).
    Euh, Dietsland is my country. Furthermore, the Boers were practically the only inhabitants of the original freestates. Only the occasional bushman here and there. Of course the Boer Nation was pushed North by the British invaders blinded by diamond greed, but the notion still stands. Most of the Zulu's in S-Africa are from origin immigrants.
    "La vie est la vie, c'est-à-dire un combat, pour une nation comme pour un homme"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Euh, Dietsland is my country.
    So you consider South Africa to be a peripheral of Dietsland? I know there's one flavour of Orangism which is inclusive of South Africa, but in reading I've only seen SA mentioned without any further details as to how we'd fit into the larger picture. Consequently I always assumed it was nothing more than a symbolic mention.

    In any case, your knowledge of South African history seems broken, but conceivably easy enough to mend with a better understanding of the geography and timing involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    the Boers were practically the only inhabitants of the original freestates.
    Once the Orange Free State and ZAR were firmly established, then yes, with the emphasis on practically, and with the understanding that the relative void the Boers filled were partially the result of conflict between the Bantu tribes of the region, and that securing their own borders relied on negotiating for land and the due application of force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Only the occasional bushman here and there.
    That would be an apt enough description for the Cape Colony when comparing Cape Dutch numbers against that of the native Bushmen. However, in their folly, the VOC replenished the numbers of non-Europeans at the Cape by importing slaves from other parts of the spice route, notably India and Malaysia. But, when speaking in terms of the Cape Colony, then yes, still no Zulu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Of course the Boer Nation was pushed North by the British invaders blinded by diamond greed,
    The people who were pushed North by the British occupation of the Cape were still on the threshold of becoming Boers, and were up until then still identifiable as Cape Dutch, and intermediately "Trekboers". The Brits' pursuit of South African diamonds and gold, and the discovery of those resources, came only after the Boer nations were established, and by then they wouldn't (and/or couldn't) budge further (the Boer pattern of abandoning their contemporaries to British rule aside).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Most of the Zulu's in S-Africa are from origin immigrants.
    Only if what you call S-Africa is indeed the old Cape Colony, which does seem to be the case (and even then, not the Zulu, but the related Xhosa). Otherwise it's assumed you're talking about everything South of the Zimbabwean border. The Zulu had their origin, i.e. their split from some wider Bantu grouping, in Natal, in what is today part of South Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Euh, Dietsland is my country..
    The last time I checked South-Africa was not part of the Greater Netherlands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Furthermore, the Boers were practically the only inhabitants of the original freestates.
    Yes, but we are not talking about the original Oranje Vrijstaat and Zuid Afrikaansche Republiek, now are we.

    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Most blacks in S-Africa, Zulu's, are immigrants.
    I replied:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimner View Post
    Indeed, but if our current borders are considered...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    Of course the Boer Nation was pushed North by the British invaders blinded by diamond greed, but the notion still stands. Most of the Zulu's in S-Africa are from origin immigrants.
    I already said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimner View Post
    as they already occupied the land by the time the Trek Boers arrived there.
    What’s the point in arguing over this, we have much bigger fish to fry. As South-Africa will not be our country again until the rest of the world has changed. We previously had the attitude of “Teen die Héle wêreld vry” but 4,000,000 of us don’t stand a chance…
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimner View Post
    The last time I checked South-Africa was not part of the Greater Netherlands.
    I didn't say Greater Netherlands now, did I?
    "La vie est la vie, c'est-à-dire un combat, pour une nation comme pour un homme"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozenstorm View Post
    I didn't say Greater Netherlands now, did I?
    Then could you explain your interpretation of Dietsland?
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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