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Thread: Voluntary Eugenics

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    Voluntary Eugenics

    So I've been thinking. Things seem pretty bad these days or at least that's what we're constantly told as genetic individuals. I really can't see much difference between the life I've been leading prior to all this financial meltdown hoopla. Maybe because I've been experiencing debt for some time.

    In any event I've been reading alot of racial forums from everything to the far right, centre and far left then trying to make sense of it all. The conclusion I've come to is sites like Skadi and I'm sure you've all visted others are at the root about genetic preservation.

    From what I understand we as human individuals are one race. If we weren't then Heidi Klum would not have produced offspring from her sexual relations with Seal. But she did and I'm going to assume that they are relatively healthy children who will lead a physically normal human life. Let's face it she is an individual able to think independently and make her own choice. However her children will most likely face genetic alienation from socializing/breeding with their mother's genotype and other similar ones.

    It is quite possible she didn't have a firm understanding of genetics and bought into a media message that users here would disagree with. But it's possible that Seal has a great personality which is what she fell in love with. I think good personalities are universal when it come to humans.

    Now if she faces or her offspring face genetic discrimination in a homogenous society. Well all I have to say is what the hell did you expect?

    Here in lies the problem for me. Should we as individuals base our opposite gender breeding selections on chance? Like say you see a pretty girl on a bus. She looks at you igniting instant chemistry followed by a relationship. Now in this relationship you begin finding out more info about your partners genetics. Maybe she has epilepsy, asthma or is hopelessly addicted to cigarettes. These are not problems your genotype experiences nor are they found in your genealogy. You also find out that her dad died at 50 because of a heart attack and his father suffered a similar fate.

    Now your genetic line has suffered problems as well but they've lived longer lives all well into their 70's on average.

    With all that being said I ask which is better? Should an individual base their breeding practice on chance. Or as we see with online dating (though not nearlly intensive enough) should we choose partners based on personality and genetic makeup. Knowing full well before going into the personality end of the relationship what their genetic medical history is?

    I'm all for eugenics and sites like Skadi as long as they are a. Completely voluntary and b. Not a pseudoscience.
    "We Europeans must define ourselves in a way that makes strategic sense. And we have to make explicit assertions of racial identity and explicit assertions of our racial interests. No other strategy will succeed in staving off the dispossession of European America." ~ Anthony Hilton is Assoc. Prof. (retired) in the Psychology Department, Concordia University, Montreal.

  2. #2
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    Eugenics first. Though someone with healthy genes will be better looking, better personality etc. One of the big problems though is if we don't have a community from which to find mates (like a church we grew up in or some other group we have a close knowledge of) its hard to really know what you are getting when you meet someone online etc. When a man or woman likes somebody most of them will act fake and pretend to be something they are not to get their mate. You also have a hard time finding out about their genetic background.

    I have been looking for a woman for quite sometime. Usually I ask if they will take an I.Q. test if a girl is interested in me. It just saves me a lot of time. Normally I must get to know the person, they lie about everything and tell me what I want to hear and 6 months later I come to the conclusion that they are an imbecile. So truly the I.Q. test is just a time saver. But the vast majority of girls even the racist ones are offended by it. "I'm not going to take an I.Q. test". lol

    So without strong communities it is rather difficult to live your life by an ideal so compromises must be made I guess. But if you want to have kids at some point I think the health of their genes should be the first priority. It just isn't socially responsible to have unhealthy children. Then again you're caught between a rock and a hard place so must make the best decision possible in those situations- choosing bad instead of worse. I've already accepted that I will end up being with a girl less intelligent than myself for example. My parents and family being defective put me in a bad situation in life so I'm not financially wealthy or even well off. Rather poor actually. And my I.Q. is in the top 3% of society. Given my economic optinos 99.99999% of the people around me are below me in intelligence. It just isn't possible to find someone that is ideal in that respect. This also applies to most other aspect such as social behavior, good physical health etc. You truly can't escape family honor or the community you live in. You are your community and I'm suffering because of it. I suposed that's why I'm obsessed with forming a new, better community of people.

  3. #3
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    I think most of us practice a form of eugenics, even if it is subconscious (alto that can be a bit broken). Most of us would go for partners that have things in common with us. In the case of us who belong to the higher regions of the intelligence spectrum that would mean that it is very likely that we will have a partner who belongs to the (far)right part of the Bell Curve.

    In the example you had given : if the male decides to have children with her, they could use existing medical technology to minimize the risk of the offspring having bad genes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albionoria View Post
    From what I understand we as human individuals are one race.
    We are all part of the same specie. Race is more a sub-specie then a group of animals that can not have fertile offspring with animals not part of said group.

    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    I have been looking for a woman for quite sometime. Usually I ask if they will take an I.Q. test if a girl is interested in me. It just saves me a lot of time. Normally I must get to know the person, they lie about everything and tell me what I want to hear and 6 months later I come to the conclusion that they are an imbecile. So truly the I.Q. test is just a time saver. But the vast majority of girls even the racist ones are offended by it. "I'm not going to take an I.Q. test". lol
    You can always join high-IQ groups if you can qualify and date women who are also members. In that way you work around the would you like to take an IQ-test part.

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    I joined the site IQcuties their self stated goal was dating for people with high I.Q.s. The test they gave wasn't really an I.Q. test and besides few people, I asked where is the dating and they said it wasn't a dating site. Besides that the only high I.Q. group I know is Mensa. My official I.Q. hovers around 130. An official test I took as a child (didn't know what I was taking) was 128. Mensa needs 132, though seems they lowered it to 130. I really don't want to waste the money and time and fail the test by one point (you can't retake their test). And I really don't have the money. You are supposed to be in the top 2% for Mensa I'm only in the top 3% besides that I'm not aware of any high I.Q. groups.

    In regards to species it should be understood that there is no magic "species" barrier. The only thing that prevents a tree and a dog from mating (for example) is that it cannot produce a viable offspring. You can't visualize a working creature that is half tree half dog, neither can nature. These practical differences are the only reason sex between species doesn't work (for the most part even the number of genes isn't as big a deal as one would think). Even here though you can splice a tree gene into a dog.

    So the ability to mate with someone and produce offspring shouldn't be as big a deal as people make it out to be. It doesn't mean that there aren't fundamental differences between the two. Its controversial but its believed that monkeys have successfully cross bred with humans. Though it is true that fertility declines with relation- mixed race couples are less fertile than same race couples- it takes more sex to get pregnant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    I joined the site IQcuties their self stated goal was dating for people with high I.Q.s. The test they gave wasn't really an I.Q. test and besides few people, I asked where is the dating and they said it wasn't a dating site.
    I have a profile on Ubermens and Intelligentpeople, alto the entry test for the later is a pure visio-spatial one. But can not tell if it is any better, since I only maintain it passive.

    Besides that the only high I.Q. group I know is Mensa. My official I.Q. hovers around 130. An official test I took as a child (didn't know what I was taking) was 128. Mensa needs 132, though seems they lowered it to 130. I really don't want to waste the money and time and fail the test by one point (you can't retake their test).
    First of all who said to you can only take there test once? Here in the Netherlands you can retry after a year has passed. And second there are more high-IQ groups out there. However most of them are more exclusive then Mensa. But the one who is less exclusive does not really fit well with the purpose of this tread. It is mostly forum based and from what I have read there, when it does come up, most of the members are against eugenics. Or at least most of the members who voice an opinion about the subject.

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    Thanks I'll look into those later. I did a search for such things and didn't find any of those sites. To be honest though as I get older I just feel increasingly fed up and have less and less interest socializing with people. It's just when you meet a million people in your life and they all are pretty much idiots and people who seem defective or you have nothing in common with- well naturally you get tired of meeting new people. But then again I severely need to meet someone with a brain cell so I can socialize in a normal way.

    Mensa has a take home test which is not an official test. You take that to see roughly where your score would be on the "real" test. Then you can only take their test one time from what I understand. But you can also submit a score from a different test that isn't theirs. So if you don't pass their test you can go take someone else's test (as long as its approved as accepted by them) and submit that.

    My strong point isn't visual spacial. I tend to do best on problems of logic. Which seem to be more G loaded than some of the other questions from what I understand. Reasoning seems pretty easy to me but for the general population seems difficult for some reason. I do above average on vocab, visual-spacial etc. but really what puts me up there is reasoning and paragraph comprehension and such, which most I.Q. tests are majority reasoning questions: oar is to boat as blah is to blah and then they show pictures and you find correlations between pictures etc. I notice a lot of take at home and unofficial I.Q. tests are more based on education or knowledge rather than actual problem solving (reasoning, visual-spacial etc.). Other than a small vocabulary section most I.Q. tests rely very little on actual education or knowledge. On I.Q. cuties they were asking questions like "what kind of artwork is this? Abstract, minimalist etc." Like if I have no interest in art suddenly that lowers my I.Q.? lol. A common misconception of the public though- generally people think I.Q. involves "knowing" stuff. It does in a way, smarter people absorb more information from their environment but we can't acurately measure intelligence with questions on trivia and knowledge. Some people who do poorly in school have high I.Q.s some who do great in school have low I.Q.s. Memorization isn't a strong component of true intelligence- a smart man writes the book- a good learner memorizes it and parrots it back. Total difference. A major difference I've seen in the "intelligence" of most "smart" minorities as well- they don't have real intellgience, just memorization and learning abilities.

    Currently I had a girl write me from Russia. The high there the other day was 20 below zero F. But she claims to have an I.Q. of 137. Interesting by some measures 135 and up is genius (others say 140). Yet I think with a standard I.Q. test if you get every single question right you only score like 135 or 140 or something. I miss like maybe a few questions out of 200 or so and end up scoring a 130. For a person with genius I.Q. you have to take a special test designed to be harder than the normal test. So this is one way I know people who claim to score 150 (everyone online seems to make such claims) is lying. You can't possibly score that high on a normal I.Q. test even with every question answered correctly. Maybe it all depends on which test you take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    It's just when you meet a million people in your life and they all are pretty much idiots and people who seem defective or you have nothing in common with- well naturally you get tired of meeting new people. But then again I severely need to meet someone with a brain cell so I can socialize in a normal way.
    I know the problem. I go the local town festivals to socialize, but in most cases I just stand on the edge of the crowd and drink some beers before I go home. And talk some with people I know can talk about a certain subject. Alto in most cases I feel I am more going trough outer motions of socialization then really doing it.

    Mensa has a take home test which is not an official test. You take that to see roughly where your score would be on the "real" test.
    I know. Here in the Netherlands if do score well enough at the home-test you receive an invitation to sign up for the official test.

    Then you can only take their test one time from what I understand.
    I do not know for the USA but here you can retry after a year has passed. I know, it was explained to us when I took the official test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Usually I ask if they will take an I.Q. test if a girl is interested in me. It just saves me a lot of time. Normally I must get to know the person, they lie about everything and tell me what I want to hear and 6 months later I come to the conclusion that they are an imbecile. So truly the I.Q. test is just a time saver. But the vast majority of girls even the racist ones are offended by it. "I'm not going to take an I.Q. test".
    Haha, I am just envisioning you hitting it off with some girl at a social gathering, and then you're like "Wait, before this goes any further, I need IQ test results from you!" Kind of like the eugenics version of awkwardly having to ask someone if they've been tested for STDs or something.

    I do understand the high IQ preference though - I have a high IQ myself and would naturally prefer not to water down my ancestral line of smartness.

    Although, I feel like I can usually get a good enough picture of how smart a girl is based on things like what her job / college major is, what her hobbies are, what kind of friends she has, etc.

    Also I definitely get not wanting to marry a girl with a history of serious genetic defects, and that factors in for me too, although I am I guess a little more liberal on that one, I am willing to forgive something like Type 1 Diabetes or something of that level if I'm totally absurdly in love, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Currently I had a girl write me from Russia.
    She is maybe high-IQ, but what do you know of her ethnic background. To prevent a little that other people think this is tread is only about the dating-problems of high-IQ males . For all you know it could be a girl from one of the Asian groups in Russia.

    Yet I think with a standard I.Q. test if you get every single question right you only score like 135 or 140 or something. I miss like maybe a few questions out of 200 or so and end up scoring a 130.
    That depends on the scaling of the test. That is why mensa and most other high-IQ groups work with percentiles, or with special high range tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by baroqueorgan View Post
    Haha, I am just envisioning you hitting it off with some girl at a social gathering, and then you're like "Wait, before this goes any further, I need IQ test results from you!" Kind of like the eugenics version of awkwardly having to ask someone if they've been tested for STDs or something.
    Therefor my tips for working around that problem. Of course you can aways give them a Mensa-testday discount coupon and say that you think she makes a high change of passing the test. Of course then you have the problem of getting one in the first place.

    But really it does not have be done in awkward way. There are plenty of secondary signs that could point to at least above average in intelligence. So if your (potential) date is at least above/below average in intelligence you would probably notice it after a couple of dates.

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    I hate to sound rude or dismissive, but if you can't tell whether someone is intelligent or not after a few dates, then maybe you're having enough conversation. Or maybe YOU are the one who is bad at conversation.

    For me, it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly whether someone is intelligent. Maybe that's because I actually ask questions and listen to the answers.

    The OP said "Should we as individuals base our opposite gender breeding selections on chance?" I've never heard a more ridiculous proposition in my life.... because nobody does this. You have conversations, you learn about a person. You find things out, you see what they know and how they process information by listening to their answers to your questions and their observations about the world. You find out if they can understand subtle humor or complex analogies. In short, you have a conversation.

    If you really can go on more than a few dates and NOT learn how intelligent someone is, then you're just really, really bad at dating.

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