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Thread: Is Freedom of Choice a Positive or Negative Concept?

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    Is Freedom of Choice a Positive or Negative Concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kogen View Post
    How does not paying a Jew to molest a chicken make you a slave?

    And I am not sure what exactly you think meat does for a human diet. It is entirely optional.
    I said choice and what works for me. Any of these reasons are designed to tell people not to eat meat there for taking away free choice.

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    Freedom of choice to act poorly is a Liberal concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kogen View Post
    Freedom of choice to act poorly is a Liberal concept.
    What one person deems as a poor choice another might deem a good choice, obviously the line must be drawn somewhere for choices, but all that can or should be done is have the information about nutrition disseminated.

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    If you have freedom of choice,
    then some people will make poor choices unfortunately.
    But if you don't allow them to,
    then it's not choice anymore.
    If people aren't allowed to eat a diet which contains meat and fats and only allowed vegan,
    then it's nor free choice anymore.
    If someone forces you to eat only a kind of diet or wear only a kind of clothes or drive only a kind of car,
    then you have no true choice and if you think you do,
    you're under an illusion.
    Choice is when you have a diversity of options,
    and usually at least one option is fundamentally different from the others,
    like vegetarianism vs. carnivorism or anarchist party vs. nationalist party.

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    It really depends what the choice is about. People should be given a choice over things that's safe to choose from. If the overall result is an increasingly unhealthy population, then some measures need to be taken. What's the point of free choice if 30% of the population is fat? Is free choice worth that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    It really depends what the choice is about. People should be given a choice over things that's safe to choose from. If the overall result is an increasingly unhealthy population, then some measures need to be taken. What's the point of free choice if 30% of the population is fat? Is free choice worth that?
    Yes, if people are educated about their choices than they are less likely to make bad ones.

    I don't agree that because some people make bad choices that everybody should suffer.

    Although I don't like fast foods. I don't think people should stop eating them.
    The problem is that people don't eat them in moderation. They are always bombarded with ads like "you deserve a break today" the last time I checked you don't deserve anything you earn it.

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    This is a pretty complex issue, mainly because most of the distinctions are not as clear-cut as they would seem.

    The first thing that I think must be made clear in any conversation like this is: what will we allow to be considered a "restriction" on choice? Are we talking only about legislative restriction?

    To answer this question, consider your answer to the question: Do poor people have the freedom to buy a yacht? If your answer is "yes", then you think of freedom of choice in a purely legislative context. If your answer is "no", then you are taking economic constraints into account when you consider "freedom".

    If you are talking about more than just purely legislative freedom, then what about really "soft" pressures like upbringing or peer pressure?

    If you think that the cultural shift in our country to demonize cigarette smoking is impinging on your "freedom of choice", then you are talking about a very general concept that includes guilt, pressure, and emotions.

    Unfortunately, you take this too far in that direction and nobody is free: I am a bodybuilder, and therefore I do not have the freedom of choice to eat a cheeseburger because I am so psychologically conditioned that it would make me feel guilty and sick.


    The answer to the original question -- is freedom of choice positive or negative? -- depends a lot, I believe, on what type of "freedom" you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VergesEngst View Post
    This is a pretty complex issue, mainly because most of the distinctions are not as clear-cut as they would seem.

    The first thing that I think must be made clear in any conversation like this is: what will we allow to be considered a "restriction" on choice? Are we talking only about legislative restriction?

    To answer this question, consider your answer to the question: Do poor people have the freedom to buy a yacht? If your answer is "yes", then you think of freedom of choice in a purely legislative context. If your answer is "no", then you are taking economic constraints into account when you consider "freedom".

    If you are talking about more than just purely legislative freedom, then what about really "soft" pressures like upbringing or peer pressure?

    If you think that the cultural shift in our country to demonize cigarette smoking is impinging on your "freedom of choice", then you are talking about a very general concept that includes guilt, pressure, and emotions.

    Unfortunately, you take this too far in that direction and nobody is free: I am a bodybuilder, and therefore I do not have the freedom of choice to eat a cheeseburger because I am so psychologically conditioned that it would make me feel guilty and sick.


    The answer to the original question -- is freedom of choice positive or negative? -- depends a lot, I believe, on what type of "freedom" you are talking about.
    To answer the poor people question, yes they have the freedom to buy a yacht, they have many options. Become rich, go into debt buying a yacht as many Americans do, debt just recently has become less popular with the bad economy worsening.

    As to peer pressure or negative advertising over certain choices that is a personal problem. If your reasons for smoking or whatever choice you make are not strong enough to stand up against negative peer pressure or advertising, then you should re-examine your choice.

    You do have the ability to eat the cheeseburger, the consequences would just be negative so you make the choice not to eat the burger. Ex. I could jump off a bridge, but I choose not to, for a variety of reasons.

    I am not a proponent of free choice for everything, as this would be anarchy, a healthy balance must be reached. The measurement of free choice is usually monitored by ones moral code and to what extent they feel it should be enforced on others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VergesEngst View Post
    This is a pretty complex issue, mainly because most of the distinctions are not as clear-cut as they would seem.

    The first thing that I think must be made clear in any conversation like this is: what will we allow to be considered a "restriction" on choice? Are we talking only about legislative restriction?

    To answer this question, consider your answer to the question: Do poor people have the freedom to buy a yacht? If your answer is "yes", then you think of freedom of choice in a purely legislative context. If your answer is "no", then you are taking economic constraints into account when you consider "freedom".

    If you are talking about more than just purely legislative freedom, then what about really "soft" pressures like upbringing or peer pressure?

    If you think that the cultural shift in our country to demonize cigarette smoking is impinging on your "freedom of choice", then you are talking about a very general concept that includes guilt, pressure, and emotions.

    Unfortunately, you take this too far in that direction and nobody is free: I am a bodybuilder, and therefore I do not have the freedom of choice to eat a cheeseburger because I am so psychologically conditioned that it would make me feel guilty and sick.


    The answer to the original question -- is freedom of choice positive or negative? -- depends a lot, I believe, on what type of "freedom" you are talking about.
    Use the example from the thread this came from then:

    Freedom to eat whatever you want, providing you can afford it.

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    Ormus says,

    To answer the poor people question, yes they have the freedom to buy a yacht, they have many options. [....] As to peer pressure or negative advertising over certain choices that is a personal problem.
    So we're talking just about legislative freedom, then. Cool.

    Personally, I think restricting freedom through legislation should be a last resort when you're talking about people "messing up their own lives." Use education, use peer pressure, use all of the social means you have available. But the fact of the matter is, legislating things like food or gambling or whatever is just the grownup-to-grownup equivalent of the "Because I said so!" parenting style. Nobody ever learns that way.

    There should be limits -- as you referred to in your comment -- especially where it concerns morality. Killing people, for example. I think it's just fine to legislate against that.

    But even though I self-identify as "liberal", the whole idea of "protecting people from themselves" by outlawing certain kinds of foods just seems wrong to me. If we can't change people's minds by educating people and providing alternatives, then we're not doing our job (as a society).

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