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Thread: Are Humans Still Evolving or Is Evolution Coming to a Halt?

  1. #21
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    QUOTE:"I think you have missed a point.
    With genetic selection you can pretty much weed out in one or at the most two generations what it would take evolution millions of years o accomplish.

    Evolution by modern standards is Dumb Change, Technology is Designed Change. Evolution has no ability to think through the best solution, design has the ability to eliminate the dead ends. Evolution today is technological NOT Natural.

    If it were not for the Anti Eugenics people there would be no reason that modern humans could not be 100% physically perfect, if modern science were applied in a logical way.!"


    The one missing the point here is YOU, not me ! That was exactly my question, what we could/should do to influence our genepool. If you are an advocat of technological evolution, then that´s fine, but you should also think about how you could implement that within a population. Should we force people to do that ? With whom should we do that ? Every pregnancy, or just say the artificial ones ? etc.etc.etc.
    That´s exactly what i wanted to discuss here, and what i wanted your opinion on. So how did i miss anything ? I simply stated the facts we have now, and asked how we could /should change that in the future, and how we could/should implement that in our society



    QUOTE:"It seems you have a very narrow view of Evolution.
    Physical Human evolution more or less came to a halt when we became able to manipulate our environment through technology. "

    Sorry, but that is simply not correct. Read the article hersir posted above. Humans do still evolve, there is no halt, although for sure things go quite a bit slower then in an all-out battle for survival . Its simply different factors today that influence evolution. For example the fact that the higher social classes have less children then the low classes (which is a quite disturbing development in my eyes)
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    Our species has many problems. But with modern age we are still evolving, now mutations are spread faster over the world because of racial mixing.

    In my ideal society we would not travel all the world and airplane travel would be limited for important political meetings and similar. Normal travel would be limited to collective transport such as busses, horses, walking, bicycles, small ferries... You would not be able to have a car for personal use. I am inspired by Pentti Linkola in this view.

    Because of this mixing with foreign races would be extremely limited by natural causes. We would of course deport all race strangers.
    .
    This is true and open borders in our countries and the push for multiculturalism is increasing the problems of our modern age. The recent blow to Danmark's DPP party and Sweden Democrats has set back any efforts to change this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    If you are an advocat of technological evolution, then that´s fine, but you should also think about how you could implement that within a population. Should we force people to do that ? With whom should we do that ? Every pregnancy, or just say the artificial ones ? etc.etc.etc.
    As I said I think it is already happening. You have two forms of evolution occurring.

    1) Natural Process, which has never disappeared as the artificial states.
    2) Rapidly advancing Medical Science, which is fast learning how to manipulate genetic material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    That´s exactly what i wanted to discuss here, and what i wanted your opinion on. So how did i miss anything ? I simply stated the facts we have now, and asked how we could /should change that in the future, and how we could/should implement that in our society
    I’m not sure that is an answerable question.
    Here is the reason why, I have no idea who will ultimately gain control of and utilize the genetic technology first.

    If Germanic's continue the way they are going, they will be last through the door, and will not benefit from or have a hand in the control of the issue.

    As far as my personal view, which is not really relevant, if I were in control of it personalty I would limit most physical evolution of Humans to traditional forms, and rely on natural evolution to take its course in most cases. In the case of faulty genes I would use genetic engineering to replace the genes.

    I would outlaw the crossing of animal forms with humans, and would not allow the creation of "Unnatural Races" or odd hair and eye colours beyond what nature designed.

    When It comes to Animal Life, I would be far more liberal, because I think at some point humans will have to move off world to survive.

    There is no reason we should not engineer some forms of earth life to live on other worlds. Moons such as Europa, could have life transplanted from earth to live in the frozen oceans under the ice.

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    Micro evolution

    The basic ways in which micro evolutionary change happens is Mutation, migration, genetic drift and natural selection. The most powerful one is Mutation. The only people on Earth in the last 10,000 years that were undergoing evolution were the ancient Nordic peoples. The recent discoveries of the genetic mutation that caused blue eyes and the mutation that caused pale skin were 2 examples of genetic mutation that they were undergoing. There are threads on both of these. Both of these mutations were traced back to approximately 4500 BC. The scientists that did the pale skin study said these people were undergoing evolutionary change. They were also traced to the climatic refuge around the northwest coast of the Black sea , near the Danube river. They appeared to be undergoing other mutations as well. This large increase in height had to be a type of mutation because there was little non-random mating going on.

    For the last half million years the average height of humans was 5'7" with variations from time to time. Then in a very short time the Nordic peoples had a big increase in height. There is little actual measurement of their height, but the Romans said the Goths were a head and more above them. That would put the Goths at around 6'10" or more depending on whose head was being measured. They were also described by a man from the middle east as tall as a date palm. Their genes were in a dynamic state of change for all these changes to take place in such a short time.

    Then you have this incredible beauty the women had. There is little evidence of this amazing beauty, but there is a very definitive description by the Roman Ausonius of a slave girl by the name of Bissula. She was captured by the Romans possibly from the Suevi tribe around 378 and presented to Ausonius as a prize. He wrote a poem about her and described her beauty as so great that neither the painter or the sculptor could duplicate her beauty. He had a portrait done of her and freed her. Unfortunately, it didn't survive the sands of time.

    This had to be another type of genetic mutation to make these people so incredibly beautiful at a time when almost everyone else on Earth was ugly. If these people were able to be geographically isolated from gene flow from other populations, these is a good possibility that in a few thousand years they could have turned into a new species. Unfortunately it never happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    I think we are all aware how the theory of evolution works in its basic principles. Now if you consequently think this through you realize the human race has a big problem ! Through our modern lifestyle and especially through medicine we have nearly stopped the human evolution !!!
    Yet, Heraclitus has given the world a truth that nothing stops, progress moves ever onward and upward in a spiral where periods of degeneration (which give the appearance of decline) must be followed by periods of regeneration, and in this cyclic manner everything improves as a whole.

    I have an easy example : a couple has trouble getting kids, and they are treated with hormons. She then gets twins. Chances are that at least a part of her problems where genetically, and now this "bad" genes are passed on into the next generation, odds are her kids will also need help in that area.
    Genes are mere potentialities and there are many other factors which play a part in the actualization of race progress beyond genes which are just as if not more important. Michelangelo sculpted his masterpiece "David" out of what was considered inferior marble. Yet Michelangelo himself was but a potential, without direction in the hand of a Giovanni. What you consider to be bad genes does not lend to any certainty and this is why we err when we base our judgments on preconcieved notions of chance.

    Two volumes by Samuel Royce attacked these questions over 100 years ago and this gives us an ideal of the conditions then as compared to now which is vital in placing "degeneracy" in perspective.

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    I admit the example with the couple having trouble getting kids was not really ideal ^^ What i wanted to show is that through today´s medicine we help many people to procreate that do have certain mutations in their genpool, that would not allow them to procreate in nature. That way their mutations live on and have the chance to spread. I think the danger from recessive genes is even worse. They can spread through the population without us noticing, till one day so many people have this gen that the chance of 2 people having both this recessive gen is quite high. Then we have to help more and more people to procreate, with ever higher costs for society.
    Another big problem for the white race in general is that our best and brightest often have only very few kids, quite many have no kids at all or adopt kids. On the other hand white trash procreates at a much higher rate. Just look at teenage pregnancies, and look from which social layer most of them are. Or look at birth rates, and compare them to the social status of the parents. I think we do have a big problem there. The theory of evolution shows us that this will inevitably lead to less kids that are the proud of our race. The genetic pool of our race slowly but surely degrades.
    Now of course we do have the technological means to influence DNA, especially with artificial pregnancies. So i believe that this is the point where we have to influence our genetic pool. The problem is that the population in general is not really a friend of genetic engineering. If parents already don´t want to eat genetically influenced food, do you think they would accept genetically influenced children readily ?
    I believe we do have to do a lot of information campaigns here to slowly public opinion on this. If we don´t our genetic pool will one day have degraded to that of lesser races.
    At the same time the negro pool slowly grows better. They still have a higher evolutionary pressure, there we still have the principle "survival of the fittest" at work much more due to famines, far less medical care etc. which leads to a quicker evolution within their populations. Of course they won´t evolve to our level any time soon, but we will get more and more equal over time if we do not take our evolution into our own hands. The biggest problem is how to convince the public of this.
    Hitler realized this quite early (which i think is one of his best intelectual achievements) and implemented eugenics. The big problem nowaday is that due to this eugenics has a bad reputation (because nothing those evil nazis did could be correct of course, as we are told all the time by propaganda). I am not the biggest fan of the nazis, but to reject an idea simply because someone one does not like had it as well is beyond stupid. It does not matter who had an idea, it matters how good this idea is, and eugenics was brilliant (although i think we have better methods today to implement it).
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    What concerns me is the advancement of medicine to a level where the weakest individuals are allowed to procreate. Hell, I'll be honest, I had terrible asthma as a kid and if I lived in the 'Darwinist' wild like the rest of the Great Apes, even I'd have been dead long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vive la yorkshire View Post
    What concerns me is the advancement of medicine to a level where the weakest individuals are allowed to procreate. Hell, I'll be honest, I had terrible asthma as a kid and if I lived in the 'Darwinist' wild like the rest of the Great Apes, even I'd have been dead long ago.
    Many types of sickness does not manifest until old age, long after most people get kids. How do you want to exclude them?

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    Those where the sickmess appears not before old age are fine by me. They are fully able to be productive members of our society, so why should anyone want to do something about them ?

    What I was thinking about is how to improve the general gen pool. You can´t force people to procreate just because they have ideal genes. On the other hand forbidding certain people to procreate because they are at the shallow end of the gen pool would also be a bit harsh, and you would never get any majority for that in a democracy.

    I believe easiest would be to introduce improved gen pools for people who decide upon an artificial pregnancy. Since here everything happens in vitro its ideal. You take out the genome and change a few things, and put it back in (as of yet we lack the technique for this , but that´s just a matter of research and money. We already do similar things in bacteria).

    In that scenario i think parents are willing participants once they know its safe and they won´t get a kid with 2 heads or so . Since we have quite many such kids every year already i think this could already be enough to make up for the weakening through medicine hersir and i mentioned earlier. I know it sounds hard, but nature is hard, and we have to make up for all the "bad gene pools" we "allow" to perocreate. I think the method i explained here is pretty much the only one you could realistically implement into a free society.
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    On the contrary people evolve all the time. In the absence of immigration the Icelandic IQ has declined as a result of modern living conditions. Something similar has happened in Israel. Genes for things such as IQ are changing frequency as a result of social/behavioural changes.

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