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Thread: Are Humans Still Evolving or Is Evolution Coming to a Halt?

  1. #11
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    Velvet says,

    I think humanity isnt evolving, it is devolving.
    Well, in the technical scientific sense, evolution is not directional, so there is no real (scientific) distinction between "evolving" and "devolving": both are merely changes in response to the opponent processes of variation and selection.

    What you're getting at, though, is that the selection factor is becoming less constrained. Indeed, you say,

    Indeed, humanity as a whole gets weaker, who could imagine walking hundreds of kilometers today? Some thousands years back people crossed entire continents. [...] Selection doesnt happen at all any more.
    Again, in a technical sense, it isn't that selection isn't happening -- simply that we have been able to alter environment in a way that makes selection less restrictive.

    It isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as our influence on the environment remains intact. If the environment changes in a way that we can't control any more, the loosening of selection criteria may screw us (that's a technical term ).

    But ultimately, it becomes as "why do we need good eyesight if we can guarantee the availability of glasses?" type of argument. The problem only arises if you question the "if we can guarantee..." part.

  2. #12
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregStevens
    It isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as our influence on the environment remains intact. If the environment changes in a way that we can't control any more, the loosening of selection criteria may screw us (that's a technical term ).

    But ultimately, it becomes as "why do we need good eyesight if we can guarantee the availability of glasses?" type of argument. The problem only arises if you question the "if we can guarantee..." part.
    I have to disagree. That selection doesnt happen IS a bad thing.
    Life is struggle, and the overall absense of any struggle makes us weak genetically.
    The animal kingdom regulates this with prey and predators, humans dont have a predator anymore that keeps him in check, in recent centuries this was regulated by wars and plaques. Although many 'humanitarians' say otherwise, it was a good thing that the population got regularly thinned out.
    This doesnt happen anymore. Neither wars nor plaques have a significant impact on the population. Struggle doesnt exist, however unfit someone is to live.

    The environmental change we call civilisation will be the genetical death of humankind. We are so arrogant to believe we could trick out the rules of the universe. We are so arrogant that we believe nature must show consideration for us. And that this civilisation will protect us magically from all evils.

    We are not fit anymore for the struggle ahead. We will be runned over by people who arent interested in civilisation. They bring perdition. And they'll wipe us off. They will have it easy, because we believe in our arrogance that civilisation will save us.


    Quote Originally Posted by GregStevens
    evolution is not directional
    Devolution is sort of a pun. evolvere is latin, it has the prefix 'ex' and therefore indeed a direction. The prefix 'de' on the other hand has the meaning of dissolving something. Devolution is the development to disintegration, to decay, to ruin.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Velvet says:

    I have to disagree. That selection doesnt happen IS a bad thing.
    Life is struggle, and the overall absense of any struggle makes us weak genetically.
    I understand what you mean. And certainly, intelligence and civilization and all of the things we tend to value and think set us "above the animals" would never have evolved at all had there been no selection pressure in the environment. When things are too easy, innovation has no function or benefit.


    But..... but...... I still have a nagging feeling that we may be having a slightly reactionary or romantic idea about what "environment" means. The environment today is different than it was 1000 years ago, and this is the case exactly because we made it so. There no longer is any selection pressure for people to be able to walk across continents, but the question is.... will that matter as the future unfolds?

    It depends on how the future looks. If it looks like the past, it will be a big problem. As you say, "We will be runned over by people who arent interested in civilisation."

    But technology DOES advance. Very few of us run our day to day lives thinking, "Am I prepared in case the electrical grid collapses?" Very few of us run our day to day lives thinking, "Am I prepared in case the transportation infrastructure of food in the country collapses?" But the fact that we are NOT prepared for that doesn't matter... because the chance of it happening is so low.

    Should we be worried about that? Should that be counted as a "point against" our fitness? I don't know. I'm honestly not sure.

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    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregStevens
    But..... but...... I still have a nagging feeling that we may be having a slightly reactionary or romantic idea about what "environment" means. The environment today is different than it was 1000 years ago, and this is the case exactly because we made it so. There no longer is any selection pressure for people to be able to walk across continents, but the question is.... will that matter as the future unfolds?
    The environment did not change, it is still the same, but we built up an illusion that makes us think it would be different.
    And then there is a huge hurricane and wipes everything off we made and built, there is a Tsunami and wipes off everything we made and built, there is a earth quake that wipes everything off we made and built.
    It is a dangerous illusion to believe the environment would have changed. It didnt.

    In fact, we do even have a predator, but our illusion bubble makes us think we could civilise this predator.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregStevens
    It depends on how the future looks. If it looks like the past, it will be a big problem. As you say, "We will be runned over by people who arent interested in civilisation."

    But technology DOES advance. Very few of us run our day to day lives thinking, "Am I prepared in case the electrical grid collapses?" Very few of us run our day to day lives thinking, "Am I prepared in case the transportation infrastructure of food in the country collapses?" But the fact that we are NOT prepared for that doesn't matter... because the chance of it happening is so low.
    Yes, technology does advance. Our entire lives are dependend on technology. And when someone pulls the plug, we will find ourselves from one day to another in the hostile environment for that we arent fit anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregStevens
    Should we be worried about that? Should that be counted as a "point against" our fitness? I don't know. I'm honestly not sure.
    Yes, it should.
    We live in an illusion bubble that paints a reality into our heads that really doesnt exist. We think we could solve all problems with technology. Or even worse, people think the possibility of something collapsing wouldnt exist, or if it still happens that someone magically will find a technical solution so quick that we even dont notice that there was something wrong.

    That's nonsense. This 'all is fine' bubble will burst within the next few years when millions of hostile immigrants will have wiped off civilisation. They will wipe us off including our illusion bubble just like we once wiped off more primitive forms of humans.
    This time the primitive will wipe off the advanced though, because our advance cannot compete anymore with brute force.

    And dont fall to the illusion that this will not happen. It will. And our chances are quite low anyway, we stand with half a billion people against 6,2 billion, who are only dependend on their instincts. We on the other hand need our civilisation bubble, we will be busy with pure survival in the now hostile again environment, when this bubble collapses due to sheer numbers. The most of our people will only then wake up and realise that civilisation will not save them from the predators, but quite the opposite, that civilisation has made them unfit for the struggle ahead.

    There will be no more complexity, there will only be kill to live or die. As things stand right now in our suicidal culture of self hatred, most people will chose to die. We are, at large, unfit for survival.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Well consider in the past people grew wheat. They didn't even have potatoes or any of that in Europe. So about 75% of the population were wheat farmers and they did it by primitive means. Back then an "evolved" person would be someone naturally great at producint wheat. Today even if we scaled back technology maybe 5% of people would need to grow wheat. We could say that it is more useful to be good at math, computer, engineering, or fixing machines (like cars). Definately in some ways there is no going back, or rather its unlikely. Even if civilization fell we would still have other plants, and primitive technology.

    The main problem is that today people who are unfit for today's environment are allowed to breed. They are given welfare and support. It is one thing to say well our people today aren't well adapted at foraging for berries, but it is another to say well our people today aren't adapted for what their ancestors did, nor adapted for the modern world. They can't read, they can't walk, they can't hunt and forage, they can't use a computer etc. they are mental retards and total ingraits. This all stemming from the fact that exess resources in society are used to support life that is unworthy (unfit) for life.

    The reason is that it is easier to screw something up than it is to improve it. In any generation most children will be average, a good bit will be below average, fewer will be above average. A nice amount will be utterly sick and defective, a much smaller amount genius. Since there are always more defective or below average births (since its easier to make a random mistake than random improvement) you need some force to take the defects out of the population pool. In the past when people needed to take care of themselves or with animals nature kills the defective. In human society since we are all a giant functioning group humans must remove the defectives from the gene pool. Our ancestors called this "good breeding". We call it today "Eugenics" which means "Good breeding" in Greek. Its thousands of years old. Our modern Chirstian/Marxist/Degenerate culture rejects it but it a neccessary principle to return to for human health.

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    Have We Stopped Human Evolution?

    I think we are all aware how the theory of evolution works in its basic principles. Now if you consequently think this through you realize the human race has a big problem ! Through our modern lifestyle and especially through medicine we have nearly stopped the human evolution !!!
    I have an easy example : a couple has trouble getting kids, and they are treated with hormons. She then gets twins. Chances are that at least a part of her problems where genetically, and now this "bad" genes are passed on into the next generation, odds are her kids will also need help in that area.
    Through the wonders of modern medicine we are today able to heal many defects with which a child would have no chance of survival in nature.
    Now of course with the possibilities we have today we do not need to be 100 fit for survival, but over time the less then good results accumulate, so our gene pool gets worse with every generation, since the bad mutations are not weeded out any longer.
    So i wanted to ask around what you people think we could/should do about this ? As i see it we have to do something about it, but anything we could do would mean a relatively drastic intervention into human procreation. I am very curious what ideas you have to handle that problem ? DISCUSS !!!
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    Now if you consequently think this through you realize the human race has a big problem ! Through our modern lifestyle and especially through medicine we have nearly stopped the human evolution !!!
    Our species has many problems. But with modern age we are still evolving, now mutations are spread faster over the world because of racial mixing.

    If it gets worse we all end up as half brown muts.

    In my ideal society we would not travel all the world and airplane travel would be limited for important political meetings and similar. Normal travel would be limited to collective transport such as busses, horses, walking, bicycles, small ferries... You would not be able to have a car for personal use. I am inspired by Pentti Linkola in this view.

    Because of this mixing with foreign races would be extremely limited by natural causes. We would of course deport all race strangers.


    Modern Homo sapiens is still evolving. Despite the long-held view that natural selection has ceased to affect humans because almost everybody now lives long enough to have children, a new study of a contemporary Massachusetts population offers evidence of evolution still in action.
    http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...931757,00.html

    the bad mutations are not weeded out any longer.
    Many bad mutations were never weeded out. A lot of them doesn't manifest until old age. A lot of the bad mutations are not dominant, so they have to expressed in double to manifest. So they can be passed on without being weeded out.

    In Norway there has been controversy caused by doctors checking the foster water of pregnant women to see if their child will have downs syndrome. This is just one example, I think many of the mutations are weeded out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    I think we are all aware how the theory of evolution works in its basic principles. Now if you consequently think this through you realize the human race has a big problem ! Through our modern lifestyle and especially through medicine we have nearly stopped the human evolution !!!
    It seems you have a very narrow view of Evolution.
    Physical Human evolution more or less came to a halt when we became able to manipulate our environment through technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    I have an easy example : a couple has trouble getting kids, and they are treated with hormons. She then gets twins. Chances are that at least a part of her problems where genetically, and now this "bad" genes are passed on into the next generation, odds are her kids will also need help in that area.
    Through the wonders of modern medicine we are today able to heal many defects with which a child would have no chance of survival in nature.
    I think you have missed a point.
    With genetic selection you can pretty much weed out in one or at the most two generations what it would take evolution millions of years o accomplish.

    Evolution by modern standards is Dumb Change, Technology is Designed Change. Evolution has no ability to think through the best solution, design has the ability to eliminate the dead ends. Evolution today is technological NOT Natural.

    If it were not for the Anti Eugenics people there would be no reason that modern humans could not be 100% physically perfect, if modern science were applied in a logical way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feyn View Post
    So i wanted to ask around what you people think we could/should do about this ? As i see it we have to do something about it, but anything we could do would mean a relatively drastic intervention into human procreation. I am very curious what ideas you have to handle that problem ? DISCUSS !!!
    If you are talking about weeding out disease, then that is being done by genetic therapy, they just remove the defective genes. And in the future they will be able to modify genes to fit specific uses.

    Personally I’m less worried about humans evolving and more worried about the abuse of genetic technology. That could make a world of difference for Germanic’s as well as everyone else.

    As for Germanic Populations, the issue will be who and how Genetic traits that started as Germanic are employed in future generations.


    Meaning, you could easily have a blue eyed black person, or a blond Asian person. Or maybe even worse, Anime looking people with pink, purple or blue hair depending on how far it is possible to bend natural genes.

    Not sure how that world will look.

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    Senior Member Feyn's Avatar
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    First of all thanks for the article, it was a quite interesting read !
    I did not doubt that we still evolve (though a lot slower rate then we would during a hard struggle for survival). The problem i see is how we change. For example one big problem is that our best and brightest usually have max 2 kids, many don´t have any kids at all, or just one, since carreer is more important. On the other end, the other side of the bell curve, aka white trash, has on average way more kids. So following evolution we will develop a worse genetic pool over time. Can and should we steer against that, and if so how ? I mean we do have the best genetic pool out there, so how should be protect it ? Should be interfere with our own evolution, and if so, how ? What meassures would you use you you where say the dictator of northern europe with non restricted powers ?
    There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last.

    Judging by it´s name common sense must once have been a pretty common thing. When and why did that change, so it became the rare treasure it is today???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    Our species has many problems. But with modern age we are still evolving, now mutations are spread faster over the world because of racial mixing.

    If it gets worse we all end up as half brown muts.
    Not necessary.
    Genetic Evolution is irrelevant in the modern world. If you can clone animals and maybe one day people, then you can for sure implant any gene in any person you want.

    We have no way of knowing what the "Muts" as you call them, will do with any genetic code they have taken from other races, and that includes Germanic and Scandinavians.

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