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Thread: "Immigration Made America Strong - but It Threatens to Ruin Europe"

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    "Immigration Made America Strong - but It Threatens to Ruin Europe"

    By Christopher Caldwell, Author Of Reflections On The Revolution In Europe

    Are Britain and Europe being swamped, overrun, defeated by a wave of mostly Muslim immigrants and their descendants? Or are Europe's ethnic problems the figment of a febrile political imagination - something created by racism, dishonesty and manipulation by extremist parties such as the BNP? Those are not the only two possibilities, of course, although a lot of people behave as if they are.

    Both sides will take lots of fodder for their arguments from a study released last week by the highly reliable Pew Forum On Religion And Public Life. According to the report, there are now 1.6billion Muslims, a quarter of the world's population.

    And they are distributed in surprising ways - there are more Muslims in Germany than in Lebanon, for example. Recent projections by the British Government show the population rising to 71 million within 20 years, due mainly to migration.

    But Europe's (and Britain's) problems with Muslim migration are not mostly demographic. The Pew study shows the world's Christian population is growing too, to 2.25 billion.

    It is possible, though, to have grave problems with immigration that do not involve either the wipe-out of a culture or the disappearance of a population.

    Europe opened the door to mass immigration in the Fifties and discovered - as the United States did before it - that it is impossible to open that door just a fraction. Immigration, though intended as a solution to a short-term labour crisis, has become, without anyone particularly wanting it to be, a permanent feature of the landscape.

    One of the most amazing statistics in the history of European immigration is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose steadily between 1971 and 2000 - from three million to about 7.5million - but the number of employed foreigners did not budge. It stayed rock-steady at around two million.

    Multi-ethnic societies can be good societies. But the transition puts a strain on institutions, on trust in government, and on a sense of identity.

    Not every society makes that transition successfully. In my book, Reflections On The Revolution In Europe, I tried to describe how this process is working - or, more often, not working.

    Revolution is not too strong a word. It well describes what occurred in America between 1840 and 1925, when millions of Catholic immigrants arrived, transforming a largely Protestant society.

    The need to accommodate them made the United States replace one kind of society with another. We may like the result, but it would have been absurd to expect those born into pre-immigrant 19th Century America to rejoice at the disruption.

    However, the transition has given America an edge in the present era of mass migrations. That is not America's only advantage, of course. The 'tone' of current US immigration is set by various Latin American cultures; that of European immigration is set by various Muslim cultures.

    The cultural peculiarities of Latin-American immigrants generally appear to Americans as antiquated versions of their own.

    Latinos speak a different (European) first language, the main language American schoolchildren study, and which immigrant families inevitably abandon for English by the second generation.

    They also have less money, higher labour-force participation, more authoritarian family structures, lower divorce rates, more frequent church attendance, lousier diets and higher rates of military enlistment than native-born Americans. Sociologists compare them to early 20th Century Italian immigrants.

    Mass Hispanic immigration can disrupt local habits and put strains on budgets - the impending bankruptcy of California is a cautionary tale - but it needs no fundamental reform of America's culture or institutions. On balance, it may strengthen them.

    Islam is different. Living with Muslim cultures requires larger adjustments, and they touch deeper, more essential parts of European culture.

    This kind of change needs to be considered when we talk about the costs and benefits of immigration.

    We tend to say immigrants and their descendants will bring us so much in tax revenue, and they're going to cost us so much in schooling. But we also need to consider the cost paid in the form of institutional rearrangements and in rights.

    Nowhere are these adjustments trickier than in questions of family, marriage, gender and sexuality. Protecting women's rights when you're dealing with a variety of cultures requires a lot more State interference than when there is rough agreement on the rules.

    Traditional Islam is not compatible with modern European hedonism and feminism. Europeans perceive it as a threat that must be managed.

    Of course, Christianity is just as much at odds with the world of disco. And not all Islam is traditional - Muslim cultures vary. But this variety creates as many problems as it solves.

    Consider female circumcision, common in Muslim countries such as Somalia and Sudan. A study by a Dutch university found this mutilation is widespread among Europeans of East African descent.

    So what does Sweden - which has a relaxed attitude towards sexuality but also a lot of female circumcision - do?

    Nyamko Sabuni is the Burundian-born Swedish Minister for Integration and Gender Equality - her title alone gives an idea of how important a battleground feminism is in countries of heavy immigration.

    She called for gynaecological inspections of all schoolgirls in Sweden - not just Muslims, since this would violate equal treatment, but all girls. This approach was rejected. But the fact it was even proposed at the highest levels of government is shocking.

    Fifty years ago, if a politician had suggested parents should be required to subject their daughters to an intimate, government-monitored strip-search, the public would have reeled in horror.

    We can applaud the seriousness of Ms Sabuni, but her suggestion revealed the strain on the country's constitutional order in the face of immigration.

    In the Nineties, Denmark lost control of its immigration policy almost completely.

    One problem was a set of guidelines on asylum that overwhelmed the country's bureaucracy. Another was marriage migration. The great majority of Danes of non-Western background married people from their ancestral countries, and the figure was even higher for those from Muslim countries.

    This was seen as a threat as it made chain migration possible, where a spouse uses his or her newly acquired citizenship to bring in extended families. It also showed that many people who held Danish passports did not fully think of themselves as Danes.

    Denmark had to act, but it was hard to do so in a way that would not be xenophobic.

    In 2001 it passed a law called the Aliens Act. Citizens under the age of 24 who marry spouses from outside the European Union are not allowed, except in special cases, to reside permanently in the country.

    So Denmark succeeded in stemming the implantation of Muslim culture on its territory - within five years only a third of foreign-background Danes were marrying abroad.

    But there was a high price, and the price was paid by all citizens in rights. The right to live in your own country after marriage was no longer self-evident.

    There has also been huge controversy in France over Muslim schoolgirls wearing traditional veils.

    A government commission recommended banning 'conspicuous religious symbols' from schools and other institutions - not just headscarves but also large crosses. Again, the price of managing cultural diversity got paid in the form of rights.

    These changes appear trivial, but add them up over the years and you have a different society.

    So why aren't they discussed more openly? During the US demographic revolution of a century ago, Americans showed a burning curiosity about the question 'What kind of country is this turning us into?' which they poured into books, pamphlets and public meetings.

    Such conversations are harder under the prevailing European reticence. But if you can't talk openly, people will lack information. People who lack information fear the worst. People who fear the worst act irresponsibly.

    Discussing immigration and its consequences openly is not rude. It is necessary to lower the temperature of the debate.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...in-Europe.html

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    Yes, Mexicans are just enriching America so much. It is not like some of the country looks like Africa now, with naked people living in garbage.

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    I agree that America threatens to ruin Europe, but immigration has not made America "strong" in the long-term, just increasingly non-Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    I agree that America threatens to ruin Europe, but immigration has not made America "strong" in the long-term, just increasingly non-Germanic.
    Immigration has weakened America to a vast extent, it has lowered wages and standard of living. Crime has increased and so has multiculturalism. At the same time social programs based on European ideas have also hurt our freedoms such as gun control, national health care, welfare, cap and trade and higher taxes.

    As a self employed business owner I feel a lot of these restraints more so than so than the average worker. Also in my short life I have to say that as an American I know that I have less personal freedom than I did 20 years ago.
    America was made great through her ideas of freedom and liberty to take away those rights is the ruination of America.

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    Unfortuneately america and its immigration policies have made it a dumping ground for the worlds garbage as of late.Europeans made the us great but the dross of humanity has eroded that greatness.I think it just may be time for like minded Nordiks to leave the USA and head back to Europe ,Russia perhaps ,as there is an unlimited area of wilderness and possibilities in the Tiaga. We come from Vikings ,so what would be more natural?Wasn't there some other guy from Germany who had the same idea in the 1930's ?

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    The US was made great by weak enemies on the American continent, which provided the opportunity to use it as a power base to comfortably manipulate the European continent.

    What is called "European" today is nothing more than a local adaptation of Americanism. In this way, incompatible concepts are combined: Trust in authority meets the non-national state, social conscience meets globalised individualism, and so on.

    The way to disentangle this mess is to cut off connections with the United States, block its power projection and perform an internal purge.

    The second best solution is to minimise and defuse that which cannot be overcome at present. This is also the problem presented to most private persons who have to succeed under any circumstances provided to them by outside factors.

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    When Will They Stop ..............

    When will Whites in Europe, America, Austalia and New Zealand stop running away from the problem ? (I did not include South Africa because sadly it is already lost)

    Pretty soon Whites will be minorities in their own countries. Low birthrates, abortions, massive non-White immigration and massive non-White births all threaten to make us extinct.

    When a Muslim majority is reached in Britain, France and Germany you can bet there will be forcible conversions for non-Muslims and executions for those Europeans un-willing to convert.

    Not only that but the Armed Forces and nuclear weapons of those nations will fall ino the hands of the Muslim enemy. Plus they will be able to deliver those weapons anywhere with the Air Forces and Navies of those lands.

    In America its different because although the Hispanics don't seek to convert or openly kill non-Hispanics, their sky-rocketing births threaten to make America a third world brown colony.

    I think Russia and Ukraine will be the only White nations standing intact. They are more opposed to non-White immigration and are not as liberalised as the fully corrupt and decadent Western "democracies".

    The Russian authorities tend to not aggressively punish those who attack immigrants
    and they are more nationalistic.

    In short because of the government's treasonous policies of importing cheap labor and giving sanctuary to any non-Whites that care to come over, they have effectively signed the death warrant of the Germanic and other Europid peoples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    The way to disentangle this mess is to cut off connections with the United States, block its power projection and perform an internal purge.
    I have never been a fan of the US dictating European policy. But as I have noticed that most Europeans have no clue as to how vast the US is. To cut off connections with the US would be suicidal we produce the largest portion of the worlds food supply. Our 'corn belt' alone is bigger than Europe. We produce more rice than Asia. Our wheat fields are so large you can see the curve of the earth. Not just food is produced from these crops there is also Ag-chemicals, fiber for clothing and paper, and ethanol for fuel.

    Keep in mind also American individualism invented mass production(Eli Whitney, Henry Ford ). When America wrongly entered WWII we were a agrarian nation and in less than five years we were the worlds leading industrial country.

    To assume that the American citizen likes what his defunct government is doing is also wrong. Our government has not been run by it own people in long time. We just pretend that it is and that is our own fault.

    I know quite a few Germans that have moved here so they could own their own companies. All of them told me that it would be next to impossible to do that in Europe. When it comes to immigration those are the type of people who have made America strong. Not some dirty Hispanic from south of our border.

    Also don't forget about our freedom of speech that makes postings like this possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peoples Observer View Post
    When will Whites in Europe, America, Austalia and New Zealand stop running away from the problem ? (I did not include South Africa because sadly it is already lost)
    Boers still exist in the millions. It is not a lost cause.

    When a Muslim majority is reached in Britain, France and Germany you can bet there will be forcible conversions for non-Muslims and executions for those Europeans un-willing to convert.
    Actually they introduce a tax that non-Muslims have to pay. Just look at the former Ottoman Empire, they never even converted Greek Othrodox Christians. There are Coptic Christians in Egypt in the millions, as well. Not all Muslims are like Saudi Arabians, although I am still not saying being second class in our own lands is positive.

    Not only that but the Armed Forces and nuclear weapons of those nations will fall ino the hands of the Muslim enemy. Plus they will be able to deliver those weapons anywhere with the Air Forces and Navies of those lands.
    This is of course a threat, but I do not think Israel is going to allow that to happen. There will be a change before this occurs. I have no idea what it will be, but it will happen. If the Jews fail, then after a short period the Muslims will have ruined the ability to maintain any of this.

    In America its different because although the Hispanics don't seek to convert or openly kill non-Hispanics, their sky-rocketing births threaten to make America a third world brown colony.
    Mexico's birthrate is lower than what they need to stay at their current population. The immigration is just too high (or it is simply there). Stop immigration, then the Mexicans will fade into the background like the Italians (ideally send them all back).

    I think Russia and Ukraine will be the only White nations standing intact. They are more opposed to non-White immigration and are not as liberalised as the fully corrupt and decadent Western "democracies".
    Moscow is less than 50% 'white'.

    The Ukraine is obviously more pure, but how is the Ukraine going to save us all?

    Finland, Lativa, Estonia, Belarus, and so on are also almost 100% European. They will not be minorities in their own countries in our life time.

    The Russian authorities tend to not aggressively punish those who attack immigrants and they are more nationalistic.
    Russia is not nationalistic, they are Chinese-like Communists. They are bound to failure.

    The fact that 'racist crimes' at not as enforced is due to lack of enforcement. They simply are too inabled to do it. This is why you have Jewish mafias, Caucasians, and Muslims everywhere causing crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    I have never been a fan of the US dictating European policy. But as I have noticed that most Europeans have no clue as to how vast the US is. To cut off connections with the US would be suicidal we produce the largest portion of the worlds food supply. Our 'corn belt' alone is bigger than Europe. We produce more rice than Asia. Our wheat fields are so large you can see the curve of the earth. Not just food is produced from these crops there is also Ag-chemicals, fiber for clothing and paper, and ethanol for fuel.
    The steppes can produce enough food, as can the sea. If we stopped exporting food to Asia and so on, then there would be no food shortages in Europe. Exploitation is the issue here. Why is it, for example, that Japan is allowed to hunt European tuna to near extinction?

    I could easily live without your rice, excess clothes, and Ag-chemicals. We can make our own wheat, paper, and fuel.

    Keep in mind also American individualism invented mass production(Eli Whitney, Henry Ford ). When America wrongly entered WWII we were a agrarian nation and in less than five years we were the worlds leading industrial country.
    England created mass production, then it went to the Benelux, then America. So no, America is just an early adopter of it due to speaking English and having nature resources.

    To assume that the American citizen likes what his defunct government is doing is also wrong. Our government has not been run by it own people in long time. We just pretend that it is and that is our own fault.
    Define your 'own people'. I see Europe's and other nation's people under a corrupt Republic that is as it describes itself: a 'melting pot'. You are just upset that you accidently added the non-Europeans to it and ruined the creepish, anti-nationalistic plan.

    I know quite a few Germans that have moved here so they could own their own companies. All of them told me that it would be next to impossible to do that in Europe. When it comes to immigration those are the type of people who have made America strong. Not some dirty Hispanic from south of our border.
    Well the Mestizos (stop saying Hispanic) just come to do the illegal work for these Germanic companies who do not want to pay their employees the unrealistic wages that Liberals demand. Stop making the companies, then the Liberals will fall apart, then the Hispanics will go home (they are doing this in some areas and Mexico is angry about the 'immigration').

    Also don't forget about our freedom of speech that makes postings like this possible.
    Cause a problem and then let us talk about it? Thanks!

    But anyway, even countries like China cannot stop internet users.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    I have never been a fan of the US dictating European policy. But as I have noticed that most Europeans have no clue as to how vast the US is.
    I have already pointed out that the US has acquired a strong power base in the Americas, but that only increases the need to counter it if one wishes to succeed in a global competition that is inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    When America wrongly entered WWII we were a agrarian nation and in less than five years we were the worlds leading industrial country.
    Germany and the United States had already eclipsed the British Empire by 1870 and were the dominant industrial powers of their time. With the destruction of continental Europe, the US filled the vacuum and integrated Western Europe's economies with its own. Wartime reliance on US products was continued into the post-war era by way of the European Recovery Program, which allowed for imports against credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    To assume that the American citizen likes what his defunct government is doing is also wrong.
    The only thing I am concerned about is that American delusions do not continue to infect the mind of my people or we will never be able to throw off this yoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    I know quite a few Germans that have moved here so they could own their own companies. All of them told me that it would be next to impossible to do that in Europe.
    I think that many more people will abandon us if we do not seal off the easy option of escape.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    When it comes to immigration those are the type of people who have made America strong.
    What matters to me is that they have drained Germany of the opportunity to increase her own strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    Also don't forget about our freedom of speech that makes postings like this possible.
    The German people do not have freedom of speech because they have proven that they can make use of it.

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