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Thread: Scared of Loki: Heathen Chickenhearts

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    Scared of Loki: Heathen Chickenhearts

    Scared of Loki: Heathen Chickenhearts


    When I announced the publication of Loki for You, I came across something truly surprising. There are Heathens who are afraid of Loki. Some are so afraid that they will not even say his name! This is truly amazing. In a religion which prides itself on courage, how can we account for such fear?

    The position of Loki is a matter of controversy for many Heathens. Is he indeed a God equal to the others? Is he the Betrayer of Asgard and the Foe of Mankind? Is Loki just a typical Trickster deity? Could Loki the God be different from the Loki who storms Asgard? Is Loki to be acknowledged, worshiped or ignored?

    A good, solid Heathen would be willing to ask these questions. Sadly, some avoid them altogether due to fear. And what is it that they fear? is it that by saying Loki’s name, they may invoke him into their lives? That looking into Loki may so offend the Aesir and it will bring retribution? That contact with Loki will contaminate them?

    Doesn’t this sound more like Christians and the Devil than Heathens and Loki?

    Many Christians quiver in fear at their Devil. They are afraid to say his name, be it Satan or Lucifer. They think his “number” is 666, and so fear that, too. There have been Christians who were appalled to be issued license plates that included 666 in the numbers. Since when do Heathens behave like devil-fearing Christians?

    Fear is what keeps a religion wallowing in snivelling superstition. Fear is what allows religion to be used as a weapon to browbeat and cow the people. Fear is what makes religious people cringe on their knees, rather than stand tall for the Gods. And what is there to fear? Just because one record of an old myth sounds bad, is that cause to be in mortal terror at the name of Loki? Maybe that record has errors. Of course, some folks are afraid to think that the Eddas might be flawed. Just as Christians treat their Bible as an infallible sacred cow, so do some Heathens try to Vaticanize the Eddas. They are all afraid that if they do not take their scriptures as if they were written in stone, they might get in “trouble.”

    Loki is not the boogey man.

    Loki is not the Devil

    Ponder the story of Utgard Loki. It tells of a Jotun named Utgard Loki (Outsider Loki, loosely translated). He sets up three tests for Thor, Loki and Thjalfi. Here we find Loki the God versus “Outsider Loki” the Jotun. Could it be that somehow, in compiling the Eddas, the scribe may have gotten these two confused?

    As some have speculated, could Loki have been confused with a fire-jotun named Logr or Logn?

    Could the Ragnarok myth been tampered to satisfy the Christians, and thus turn Loki into an Adversary. Or might it be that Loki is just a mythic convenience in the Ragnarok tale?

    There are many more questions to ponder. You cannot muse over these queries if you are in abject horror of Loki. Fear inhibits objectivity. Heathens need to think objectively rather than let this Loki-fear keep them back.

    ************

    http://www.thortrains.com/utmo/chickns1.htm


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    Eala Freia Fresena
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    Snorri was somewhat influenced by christianity. He also was a very well scholared men. In the Edda he gives the ancestry of the Gods as the descendants from Troy.

    the Edda is mainly an exercise for skalds, how to make skaldic poems. As the subject he used germanic/norse mythology and hero sagas.

    I take the Edda with a grain of salt. Not as a holy book. (Despite I have a very different approach as normal heathenism has).

    Loki might have been shaped to fit the devil of christianity and thus Snorri tried to link Heathenism with Christianity to make his ancestors not look too bad and somehow justify their religion as being partly like christianity.

    Loki represents the rule-breaker. The one who creates havoc and chaos. He is something of his own, not part of a group. This I think is a very important part of a lively religion. it keeps it dynamic. You always have to think about rules in a new way and make an effort to keep them. It makes you use your brain and your good judgement instead of frozen and dead rules or customes.

    He is the ultimate challenger on the inside. If you don't challenge your understanding, your knowledge your way of life you are basically a walking dead. But to do that you need strength and courage also the ability to stand against society, your kinfolk your brothers and sisters, your ancestors.

    For me he is the one who keeps me free. He reminds me, that it is ultimately me who is responsible for my deeds, I can't put the responsibilty on customs, rules, ancestors etc.

    There has to be a fine balance between chaos and cosmos with a strong focus on cosmos.

    Rules are there for the people to make their life safer but at a certain point the role of rules change, people become subject to rules. There you need chaos and freedom.

    if you break throug to the realm of the spirits and Gods you will find that there are no rules you can depend on. Loki is teaching you to try it in ordinary life.

    He has its place in the pantheon of the Gods. I wouldn't be his worshipper because I don't want to be a rulebreaker all the time. I think the time we live in has that to an excess.

    I am not afraid of him nor do I worship him but I do respect him and sometimes use his method and thus honor him through my deeds.

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    I share Ocko's view of Snorri.

    Loki is not problematic. He reminds of the Christian Devil because most Heathens today (myself included) are instantly familar with the Christian Devil. This author is looking backwards at that.

    He is a part of an older order of beings that came before the Creator Gods (Odin, Vili, and Ve) and was never banished along with them.

    Unlike the Vana gods who eventually co-exist due to sharing and love, Loki and most of the other jotuns can never live in peace with the order of the Gods and hate it. Loki is just the most "likeable" and so Odin lets him hang around (my opinion). Look at all the trouble he causes.

    Loki was a transexual shapeshifter who played a female's sexual role with a horse. He is a thief who constantly betrays the Gods to steal the representitives of fecundity and female power to the jotuns and for his own gain: Sif's golden hair, Freya's necklace, Freya's disguise, etc. He is involved with the theft of Thor's hammer.

    He is the father of the bane of the Gods and also of the banes of the Gods' creations.

    He is a liar whos lips are sewn shut to prevent further utterences. He is the antithesis to Odin, who sacrifices of himself; Loki sacrifices others.

    No place or people are ever named for Loki.

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    Loki is the Prometheus of the Northern world, he is the questioner, the leveller, the one to convince, and he is the cracked mirror which shows us who we really are.

    He scoffs at convention and takes the mighty to task!

    Make sure of your facts while Loki is around, for he will de-bluster the blusterer and deflate the inflated. He will bring low false heroes.

    Loki is the painful truth and the bitter edge we all need in our lives!

    But he is not to be worshipped nor feared…..just listened too!


    hodekin
    Deep in the forest, shaded by the leaves of the Greenwood Tree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog
    Look at all the trouble he causes.
    He isnt only negative though.

    He helps to get back the Hammer, he prevents the Jotun from finishing his work and to get the sun, the moon and Freya, he gave birth to Sleipnir.

    He teaches that you have to be careful, that trust isnt always the right choice, that some people are better off bound than free.

    Loki is an important figure, surely not one to worship, but still important.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Is Loki to be acknowledged, worshiped or ignored?
    Loki is too central a figure in the myth to be ignored, and as such should certainly be acknowledged. However he should not be worshipped, I view him as a problematic figure.

    Heathenry is not about Good or Evil, not about Order or Chaos, not about Light or Dark, not about Night or Day, not about Life or Death --- Heathenry sees these things as all complimentary, and as such they are all desirable to a certain balanced extent. Which is also why there can be no such thing as "Dark Heathenism" --- there are dark aspects as much as light aspects, Odin is as much a god of deception as he is a god of wisdom and truth; Tyr is as much a god of war (the fighting aspect) as he is a god of peace (the law-speaking aspect).

    However, what Loki represents is corruption, and betrayal. Corruption is something which is never desirable, never balanced. Corruption is not a primeval law, it is a primeval flaw: Any person who strides towards any goal will not wish to see corruption --- one who strides for life will not wish to see corruption towards death, and one who strides for death will not wish to see corruption towards life, and so on and so forth.

    Betrayal and corruption are human, but their are universal flaws. It is important that all are genuine and steadfast - regardless of what they are aiming towards, they will not wish these things which are represented by the "Loki force": The misanthrope will wish to be betrayed and be corrupted away from his goals just as little as the philanthrope will wish to be so.

    As such, the change that Loki makes is one which is always negative, regardless of the viewpoint one takes --- he does not stay true to his path, and moves from the chief ally towards a cause (in that case that of the Aesir) towards a selfish cause without any observable system other than losing his personal integrity. As such, he is not the worshipped as a whole as much as some of his deeds can be classed as honourable by most.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Since I am just starting to study Asatru I have a question about Loki. I have seen pictures of forge hearth stones with the image of Loki carved in them. Does Loki have anything to do with iron smithing or smelting?

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    Fascinating.

    I must admit I am still quite new to Heathenism, It is one of a few things I have become interested in since joining Skadi. I had never really paid it that much attention since becoming an Atheist after chosing my path (I was christened Roman Catholic).

    It's only since joining here that I have realised how much of an important role it plays in so many peoples lifes. Sorry if I sound ignorant there. It's only now I'm begining too see what a breath of fresh air it is.

    I definately intend to find out more about it, by reading more on the skadi and other sources... this is one religion I definately wouldn't mind hearing more about. Thankyou for threads such as this that have made that journey possible.

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    Loki is a lesson. He's deceitful and intelligent, representing the most powerful enemy imaginable, which is not the one brandishing a blade. Such people are uncommon but are usually the ones to create the most havoc. The figure is there to remind people to remain on their toes and to suspect trickery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Baughman View Post
    Since I am just starting to study Asatru I have a question about Loki. I have seen pictures of forge hearth stones with the image of Loki carved in them. Does Loki have anything to do with iron smithing or smelting?
    Not really.
    He is a Jotun (giant) and believed to be originally a fire spirit, derived from his mother's name Laufey, which means leaf island, but the hierarchy that is commonly applied requires that the offspring represents a force, either destructive or adding something.
    His father Farbauti is, with lots of assumings I may add, assumed to be a fire Jotun, his name means "dangerous / cruel striker", this was transfered to "lightning", making Laufey to "tree" and therefore Loki to the ablazing fire.

    This comes from the nature mystic research, and is probably initiated by a name confusion with Logi, indeed a fire Jotun, but he has nothing to do with Loki or his family. So this interpretation is very uncertain.

    The other part, that for the iron, is the same far fetched connection (at least, I cant think of a better right now). The heart of Angerboda, which was burnt by the Aesir in the Iron Wood, was eaten by Loki and impregnated him with Hel, Fenrir and Jörmungandr.


    The most likely explanation why Loki ended on a forge hearth is that the maker of that confused a scene he's probably seen somewhere, when Loki was present in the Dwarves' smithy to get something done (Freya's golden hair or something)...
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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