Results 1 to 2 of 2

Thread: Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension

  1. #1
    Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Nachtengel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    12 Hours Ago @ 01:45 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    6,364
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    200
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,159
    Thanked in
    670 Posts

    Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension



    “When an English speaker doesn’t understand a word of what someone says, he or she states that it’s ‘Greek to me’. When a Hebrew speaker encounters this difficulty, it ’sounds like Chinese’. I’ve been told the Korean equivalent is ’sounds like Hebrew’,” says Yuval Pinter (here on the excellent Languagelog).

    Which begs the question: “Has there been a study of this phrase phenomenon, relating different languages on some kind of Directed Graph?” Well apparently there has, even if only perfunctorily, and the result is this cartogram.
    When a Hellenophone has trouble understanding something, his or her preferred languages of reference, as far as incomprehension is concerned, are Arabic and Chinese. And while for Arabs the proverbial unintelligible language is Hindi, for Chinese it’s… the language of Heaven.
    For Romanians, the ultimate in incomprehensibility is Turkish, for the Turks its French and the French consider Javanese the acme in huh?
    But it is Chinese that, according to this cartogram, is the incomprehensible lingo of (p)reference for almost a dozen other languages, from Greek and Polish to Dutch and Lithuanian. Spanish, Hebrew and Greek are also quite popular, understandably so in the case of the latter two languages (isolate, relatively small languages) but more inexplicably so in the case of Spanish – a world language in its own right.
    Which begs the fundamental question: why is language X considered the summit of incomprehension by language Y? Doesn’t that at least require some passing knowledge (or to be more precise, an awareness of the existence) by Y of X?
    Mutual incomprehension results from the right mixture of inter-lingual proximity and unintelligibility. In the Middle Ages, for example, when the monks’ knowledge of Greek was waning, they would write in the margin of texts they could not translate, in Latin: “Graecum est, non legitur” (”This is Greek to me, I can’t read it”).
    Greek, an elite language even in Roman times(1), has remained the West’s most popular shorthand for gobbledygook throughout the time of Shakespeare, who coined the original expression “it was Greek to me” (in Julius Caesar, Act I, Scene II).
    In the comments section of Languagelog are listed a few examples of such close/distant language incomprehension pairs:
    • In Italian, one can ask: “Parlo italiano o turco ottomano?” (”Do I speak Italian or Ottoman Turkish?” It has a nicer cadence in Italian)
    • One reported German expression for something incomprehensible: “Mesopotamisch”. Another one: “Kauderwelsch” (possibly referring to the Rhaeto-Romance language spoken in Switzerland)
    • Older Taiwanese refer to youthspeak, internet slang etc. as sounding “Martian” to them.
    • Even Esperanto-speakers have been endowed with their own expression, pointing the finger at another constructed language: “Estas Volapuk al mi!” (”It’s Volapük to me!”)
    • In Finnish, “Siansaksa” (”Pig German”) is the word for incomprehensible gibberish. Notice the similar English expression “Pig Latin”.
    • In Icelandic, one could say “Þetta er latína fyrir mér” (”This is Latin to me”) or “Þetta kemur mér spánskt fyrir sjónir” (”This looks Spanish to me”).
    • “Das ist mir Böhmischer Dörfer” (’That’s Bohemian villages to me”) – this German reference to the incomprehension (or at least impronouncability) of Bohemian (i.e. Czech) village names is mirrored in the Slovak expression “Je pre mňa španielska dedina” (”(That) is for me a Spanish village”), and in the Slovenian one “To mi je španska vas” (”This is a Spanish village to me”) . Other related expressions, not just dealing with incomprehension so much as just plain chaos, are “Czeski film” (”Czech movie”) in Polish, for a kafkaesque situation, for example in dealing with bureaucracy. German has “polnische Wirtschaft” (”Polish economy”) for a chaotic situation and “Fachchinesisch” for technical jargon.
    (1) In Rome of course, not in Greece.
    http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/200...comprehension/

  2. #2
    Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Siebenbürgerin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Transylvanian Saxon
    Subrace
    Alpinid/Baltid
    State
    Transylvania Transylvania
    Location
    Hermannstadt
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Family
    Married
    Politics
    Ethno-Cultural
    Religion
    Lutheran
    Posts
    2,761
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    240
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    507
    Thanked in
    248 Posts
    Thanks for the very interesting cultural and linguistic information.

    For Romanians, the ultimate in incomprehensibility is Turkish
    Indeed, this is something the Transylvanian Saxons have borrowed as well. But we've also the "it sounds like Chinese saying". I'm curious if in Germany or other countries these sayings have racist connotations, because I've been told in one of the schools here a girl was scolded for using the expression "How can you not understand it, are you a Turk?" Because it was offensive towards the Turkish ethnicity. The Chinese reference is considered offensive by some peoples too, because there are Chinese immigrants here lately. There is also the expression "Where have you been? In Turkey?", when someone comes very late. There was a commercial about it, a phone promotion which you could win and get a free trip to Turkey. A young woman came late at home and her father was upset. He asked her if she was in Turkey, and she said yes, because she had won that trip.

Similar Threads

  1. The Genius of Mutual Indebtedness - Nigel Farage
    By Wulfaz in forum Parties, Organizations, & Activism
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, June 18th, 2012, 06:34 PM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last Post: Sunday, January 8th, 2012, 05:41 PM
  3. Mutual Intelligibility Between Germanic Languages
    By DebianFox in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:10 PM
  4. Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, 1939
    By IlluSionSxxx in forum Modern Age & Contemporary History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Tuesday, October 30th, 2007, 02:48 AM
  5. Any offers of German-Greek or Scandinavian-Greek dictionaries??
    By OMegasPan in forum Literature & Book Reviews
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Tuesday, September 26th, 2006, 03:26 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •