View Poll Results: Which city would you prefer as capital for a German union?

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  • Berlin.

    56 40.88%
  • Vienna.

    36 26.28%
  • Another city. (specify it please)

    36 26.28%
  • I've no preference.

    9 6.57%
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Thread: Berlin or Vienna, Which Capital Would You Prefer for a German Union?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    No surprise there since you are both Southern. But few Central or Northern Germans would feel anything special towards it, and it's less known than Munich. Ask Americans what's Berlin or Vienna, or Dresden, and they will know. Ask them what's Regensburg, and they will shrug.
    It´s not the fault of Regensburg when people have a giant gap in their historical knowledge of Germany. Regensburg was one of the few powerful and influencal cultural and social main centers of the German languaged federations during the Middle Ages when Berlin was nothing else than a slavic influended fishermen's village in the swamps of the region which later became the then germanicised Brandenburg.

    Later, Regensburg became the de facto capital of the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" for several centuries. Regensburg has seen Otto the Great, King Friedrich I. Barbarossa, Ludwig the German and many more important German personalities in our history. Some parts of the Crusades against the Muslims have started in Regensburg.

    Berlin is in no way representative for our German history because it became only influencal within the last 1/15 of the German history timeline. We need something more representative, a city which represents the German history throughout the centuries. If you dislike Regensburg some other options could be Magdeburg (it´s more than 1000 years younger than Regensburg, anyway), Münster or Xanten.

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torch_Bearer View Post
    IBerlin remains the historic capital of united Germany, so I could understand why some would want to keep it that way.
    Of what "united Germany"? Of the "united" Germany of 1871 that excluded over 10 million Germans, dooming them to minority status within essentially a Slavic Empire? Or of the "united" Germany of 1989 that still excludes over 10 million Germans, who are in the meantime being increasingly unrooted from their Germandom and told they're anything but Germans?

    Vienna remains the historic capital of united Germany, that is the historic united Germany - technically Aachen was the capital of the united Germany of 800, with Vienna gaining importance and being the German imperial seat for over half a millenium prior to the 1806 mayhem.

    There is nothing "historically a capital" about Berlin in regards to any fully united construct of Germany. Neither the "Bismarckian" creation of 1871 nor the FRG of 1989 have any character of a fully united Germany.

    This is not to say that Berlin shouldn't be the capital, there are many arguments in its favour, and its size alone would qualify it even from the top competitors - but there are certainly other competitors which should be considered as well, IMO, and who have claims historically, logistically and culturally just as valid.

    If designating either Berlin or Vienna, or indeed Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt/Main or any other major city and centre of culture and commerce is inopportunous, then a type of "Australian model" could always be possible (remember was declared capital to preclude the battling between Sydney and Melbourne for predominance), and a smaller town could be chosen.

    Which is why Regensburg remains a good option, not just because it's in Bavaria, though of course I won't deny that this would - on a personal rather than collective level - be a bonus to me. Important with such a compromise is that all sides are happy --- and whether it be Regensburg, Kassel, or if has to be Bergisch Gladbach (come on, Heidi Klum is from there. !), it won't matter. Regensburg has the edge of being a historical centre of our folk.

    But whilst it could be possible, we should perhaps aim for one of our historical centres, a nation of such great and long history as Germany would do ill for example to have a 70-year-old city like Wolfsburg become its capital. Of the choices available, my personal vote would go to Munich, for all the reasons outlined in previous posts, and beyond.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix View Post
    Shouldn't Germany seek to return to its Germanic culture and roots, which are up North? The South and the East are poor choices to reflect Germanic heritage. The South has Celtic and Roman elements in its culture, which is an Alpine culture, not Nordic. The East is heavily slavicized. Genetically and phenotypically, North Germans are the most Germanic.
    Very well put.

    I vote for the Hanse Stadt Bremen.

    It offends neither North or South Germans.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peoples Observer View Post
    Very well put.

    I vote for the Hanse Stadt Bremen.

    It offends neither North or South Germans.
    To transfer it on US conditions: It would be like making San Diego to the capital of the US. It´s too far north (or regarding the US example: south) and not representative for Germany as a whole or for our history (regarding the US example: not representative for the US as a whole and for the history of the USA).

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Of what "united Germany"? Of the "united" Germany of 1871 that excluded over 10 million Germans, dooming them to minority status within essentially a Slavic Empire? Or of the "united" Germany of 1989 that still excludes over 10 million Germans, who are in the meantime being increasingly unrooted from their Germandom and told they're anything but Germans.....
    Ok, you got me!

    I suppose I'm not the best qualified for this topic, but I'm bored and felt like typing something so I did.

    But yeah, Regensburg looks good to me! It's in Bavaria and has Valkyrie's endorsement. I'm sold.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd
    Important with such a compromise is that all sides are happy --- and whether it be Regensburg, Kassel, or if has to be Bergisch Gladbach (come on, Heidi Klum is from there. !), it won't matter.
    C'mon, not even Bergisch Gladbacher like their city

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd
    Regensburg has the edge of being a historical centre of our folk.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd
    Of the choices available, my personal vote would go to Munich, for all the reasons outlined in previous posts, and beyond.
    Ignoring that Munich would be a wedge from the start in something that is called a union


    Although, I have to say, Matrix has a point too. The least foreign-influenced culture / architecture -wise and of course racially viewed would be something north German...
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix View Post
    Shouldn't Germany seek to return to its Germanic culture and roots, which are up North? The South and the East are poor choices to reflect Germanic heritage.
    Then Berlin is a bad example, and Prussia in its entire original area is a bad choice to reflect Germanic heritage, obviously, since the Teutonic Order did not arrive till the late 1100s.

    Of course now it would be an absolute folly to assume that the average German Berliner is in truth a closet Russki who was taught to speak German some 800 years ago, and taught to keep a German Shepherd dog some 200 years ago, but that's essentially what you're alleging, except that I'm extending the argument to the ridiculous.

    The South has Celtic and Roman elements in its culture, which is an Alpine culture, not Nordic.
    Have you ever been to the respective areas? Have you ever observed the culture? Have you observed respective Celtic and Roman cultures and compared them? Or have you just read books and pretend that the Völkerwanderung never happened?

    As far as the "racial disparity" is concerned, there is much credibility towards the theory that Germanic Alpinids are merely a further borealised Borreby type, that there is no readily distinguishable boundary between both, but a continuum in degrees of progressivity the further north/south you get. And if Borrebies are "un-Germanic" then Leif Erikson is equally "un-Germanic" for all the statues to his honour depicting him as being a textbook example of a Borreby type.

    And as far as the "Alpinid racial character" of much of Southern Germany and Austria is concerned, I again wonder whether you have actually visited our stretch of land, or whether you've just seen it on postcards and in Hollywood movies. Of perhaps 30 closer acquiantances here back home, I think there's a grand total of 3 (!) who classify as fully Alpinid.

    Genetically and phenotypically, North Germans are the most Germanic.
    Lemme guess, Nordid type with blonde hair and blue eyes? Interesting to hear once more that pseudo-scientific blabber that makes half of Russians and virtually all of Latvians, Estonians and Finns more Germanic than us actual bearers of Germanic culture down here.

    But luckily, we have Americans to tell us what our cultural substrate is, and moreover what our historical capitals and cultural centres are. Never mind all the contrary research much closer to home, that's probably just Nordicist propaganda by Bavarians with an inferiority complex the size of Mount Everest.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    To transfer it on US conditions: It would be like making San Diego to the capital of the US. It´s too far north (or regarding the US example: south) and not representative for Germany as a whole or for our history (regarding the US example: not representative for the US as a whole and for the history of the USA).
    Sounds good to me !

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix View Post
    Shouldn't Germany seek to return to its Germanic culture and roots, which are up North? The South and the East are poor choices to reflect Germanic heritage. The South has Celtic and Roman elements in its culture, which is an Alpine culture, not Nordic. The East is heavily slavicized. Genetically and phenotypically, North Germans are the most Germanic.
    Can you explain to me what is Celtic or Latin about southern German culture?

    I realize that some of those elements have been absorbed into the population, but I don't see how this reflects in their culture unless it is in very subtle aspects. Icelanders have a considerable amount of Celtic blood as well, but their culture is still undeniably Germanic.

    Culturally speaking, the northern part of Germany isn't anymore Germanic than the south today, unless you equate being more cosmopolitan with being more Germanic.

    Judging from recent history, the south has been the backbone of Germanic resistance, so the north should look south for guidance, not vice-versa.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    It´s not the fault of Regensburg when people have a giant gap in their historical knowledge of Germany. Regensburg was one of the few powerful and influencal cultural and social main centers of the German languaged federations during the Middle Ages when Berlin was nothing else than a slavic influended fishermen's village in the swamps of the region which later became the then germanicised Brandenburg.

    Later, Regensburg became the de facto capital of the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" for several centuries. Regensburg has seen Otto the Great, King Friedrich I. Barbarossa, Ludwig the German and many more important German personalities in our history. Some parts of the Crusades against the Muslims have started in Regensburg.

    Berlin is in no way representative for our German history because it became only influencal within the last 1/15 of the German history timeline. We need something more representative, a city which represents the German history throughout the centuries. If you dislike Regensburg some other options could be Magdeburg (it´s more than 1000 years younger than Regensburg, anyway), Münster or Xanten.
    The Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was a multicultural entity which included non-Germans, with a Jewish religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Of what "united Germany"? Of the "united" Germany of 1871 that excluded over 10 million Germans, dooming them to minority status within essentially a Slavic Empire?
    It's not as though the Austrians were saints. Austria declared war on Prussia. The German empire had been dominated by the Habsburgs for a long time, and now when it was the Prussians' turn, Austro-Bavarians whine. The smaller German solution was adopted because there was no other way.

    Or of the "united" Germany of 1989 that still excludes over 10 million Germans, who are in the meantime being increasingly unrooted from their Germandom and told they're anything but Germans?
    As if the Germans of 1989 had a choice. You should be happy a unification happened and we are not FRG and GDR still today. Oh, and do German nationalists force Austria to adopt its inane anti-NS laws and petty regionalist 'patriotic' stance, for fear of losing their culture to 'Prussianization'? Austrian nationalists, even the best parties of Austria, support the anti-NS stance and regional populism.

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