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Thread: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Moslem than a Baptist

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    Senior Member Ediruc's Avatar
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    Not that I am saying they should accept our own culture and values once they live in our own lands. They shouldn't be in our own lands in the first place. But, the fact that they don't want to adapt and change to Western culture still isn't helping many Germanics/Whites in waking up to the reality of this cultural and racial invasion. It is just causing us more problems and more violence like honor killings and stonings even on our own women.

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    Senior Member Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    That is not rebellion at all. It's perfectly within the scope of Muslim morals, actually they could go naked as long as they wear their hijab




    Indeed, but way too many do
    It's good because it means they are divided. It doesn't matter how big or small the divisions are they are little cracks. I have lurked on Muslim forums and believe me general opinion is that it is not cool for women to wear tight jeans etc as long as they are wearing the hijab.

    Islam is all about control, we want them to feel threatened and push them to show their true colours like this video about honor killings etc.
    I grew up on a belief of honour, courage and the old world values. The world isn't about that anymore, preferring to die a slow death of fast food and cheap thrills.

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    Senior Member Roderic's Avatar
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    Germany Debates Moslem Immigration

    A national debate is raging in Germany over Muslim immigration. The issue is drawing attention not only to Germany's broken immigration system, which for many decades now has failed to integrate Germany's Muslim population, but also to Germany's demographic time bomb, which is significantly accelerating the pace of Muslim immigration.

    The debate is also exposing deep rifts between Germany's politically correct elites, who for years have tried to silence discussion about Muslim immigration, and vast numbers of ordinary Germans, who are becoming increasingly uneasy about the social changes that are transforming Germany, largely due to the presence of millions of non-integrated Muslims in the country.

    The debate over Muslim immigration is being fuelled by an explosive new book titled "Germany Does Away With Itself." The best-seller, authored by 65-year-old Thilo Sarrazin, a prominent German banker who is also a long-time member of the center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), has broken Germany's long-standing taboo on discussing the impact of Muslim immigration by highlighting painful truths about the current state of affairs.

    Apprehension about the future explains why Sarrazin's concerns over Muslim integration are resonating with the German population at large. (Sarrazin's book has topped the bestseller list on bookseller Amazon's German website since its publication in late August, and book tour dates are sold out across the country.) Polls show broad public support for Sarrazin's anger that many Muslim immigrants shut themselves off from Germany, do not speak German and do not share the German and European worldview.

    According to a recent survey conducted by TNS Emnid pollsters, around 20 percent of German voters would back a hypothetical political party led by Sarrazin. Another poll conducted by the mass-circulation Bild am Sonntag shows that 89 percent of those surveyed say Sarrazin's arguments are convincing. "For them, Sarrazin is somebody who is finally saying what many are thinking," according to Emnid.

    This worries the uppity guardians of German political correctness, who have tried to silence Sarrazin by getting him removed from the board of the German central bank, the Bundesbank, and expelled from the Social Democratic Party. Infuriated by Sarrazin's audacity to question the status quo of German multiculturalism, the bulk of Germany's political and media class has been working overtime to delegitimize Sarrazin as a "racial arsonist."

    Excerpts from the book, which is written in a highly confrontational style, include the following:

    "In every European country, due to their low participation in the labor market and high claim on state welfare benefits, Muslim migrants cost the state more than they generate in added economic value. In terms of culture and civilization, their notions of society and values are a step backwards."

    "No other religion in Europe is so demanding and no other migration group depends so much on the social welfare state and is so much connected to criminality."

    "Most of the cultural and economic problems [in Germany] are concentrated in a group of the five to six million immigrants from Muslim countries."

    "I do not want my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to live in a mostly Muslim country where Turkish and Arabic are widely spoken, women wear headscarves and the day's rhythm is determined by the call of the muezzin."

    "If the birthrate of migrants remains higher than that of the indigenous population, within a few generations, the migrants will take over the state and society."

    "I do not want us to end up as strangers in our own land, not even on a regional basis."


    "From today's perspective, the immigration of guest workers in the 1960s and 1970s was a gigantic mistake."

    The roots of Germany's current problems with Muslim immigration can be traced back to October 30, 1961, with the signing of a labor recruitment agreement between West Germany and Turkey. At the time, West Germany's post-World War II economy was booming and similar treaties with Greece, Italy and Spain were insufficient to supply Germany's seemingly endless demand for labor. By the end of 1969, more than one million Turkish "guest workers" had arrived in Germany to work in the "host country's" industrial zones.

    The initial idea was that the Turkish labourers would return home after a period of two years, but the so-called "rotation clause" was removed from the German-Turkish treaty in 1964, partly due to pressure from German industry, which did not want to pay the costs of constantly training new workers. The predictable result was that many Turks never returned home.

    Today, the Turkish population in Germany has mushroomed to an estimated 3.5 million, and Turks now constitute the largest ethnic minority group in the country. Demographers expect that the Turkish population in Germany will increase exponentially in coming decades, largely due to a high birth rate and Germany's continuing high demand for foreign workers.

    Germany's demand for foreign labor is being fuelled by a demographic crisis, in which the German population is not only ageing, but also shrinking, at a rapid clip. According to recent projections by the German Federal Statistics Office, Germany's current population of 82 million, the largest in the European Union, is set to decline by as much as 20 percent, to 65 million, over the next five decades. At the same time, 34 percent of the population will be older than 65 and 14 percent will be 80 or more by 2060, up from 20 percent and 5 percent respectively in 2009.

    The twin challenges of depopulation and aging will have major consequences for the financial sustainability of Germany's cradle-to-grave social security system. For example, the number of pensioners that will have to be supported by working-age people could almost double by 2060, according to the Federal Statistics Office. While 100 people of working age between 20 and 65 had to provide the pensions for 34 retired people in 2009, they will have to generate income for between 63 and 67 pensioners in 2060.

    Germany's grim demographic future will also have implications for its export-driven economy. According to the Mannheim Research Institute for the Economics of Aging, industrialized countries such as Britain and France "will overtake Germany in the future" because of their ability to combine higher birth rates with an inflow of qualified immigrants. "Germany will clearly decline as an economic power, especially in comparison to up-and-coming nations such as China and India." In fact, in 2009, Germany lost its cherished title of world export champion to China, heightening fears of a declining stature and importance globally.

    All this implies that in the future, Germany will become more, not less, dependent on immigrants. And Turks will continue to be a major source of labor, considering that the birth rate among Turkish immigrants in Germany is 2.4, nearly double that of the native German population (which at 1.38 is far below the replacement rate of 2.1 children per couple). At this rate, the number of native Germans will be cut in half in around six generations, while the number of Muslim immigrants in Germany will more than quadruple.

    At the same time, the German left is struggling to come to terms with the fact that many Germans simply are not buying into the political elite's postmodern vision for an Islamicized Germany. The left-wing magazine Der Spiegel, in an article titled "Why Sarrazin's Integration Demagoguery Has Many Followers," asks: "In what country are we living? After the 2006 World Cup, it seemed that Germany had become cheerful and cosmopolitan. But the popular approval of Sarrazin leads us to question whether there isn't an underlying xenophobia after all."

    Elsewhere, Der Spiegel refuses to accept the fact that many ordinary Germans do not share the political opinions of the media class, and summarily declares alternative viewpoints as racist. Lamenting the broken relationship between the political and journalistic class with the rest of the country, the magazine asks: "Do citizens feel abandoned on the question of integration? Or, asked another way, does Germany have a fertile breeding ground for the kind of populist right-wing party that is already par for the course in many European countries?"

    But many German media outlets (on both the political left and right) have come out in support of Sarrazin. For example, the center-left newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung agrees that Sarrazin has "addressed a problem that will remain long after the waves of outrage have subsided: the enormous integration deficit of the Muslim minority in Germany, or at least of disturbingly large parts of it."

    Elsewhere, Süddeutsche Zeitung writes: "A large section of the political elite wants to send Sarrazin away to the Sahara or wherever the Saracens come from, the ones who once gave his family its name. Yet many of those distancing themselves from Sarrazin aren't using arguments. They find it all simply so distasteful. For too long Germans thought they could leave it to immigrants to decide how far to integrate themselves or whether they want to do so at all. That has led to grievances that Sarrazin has correctly described."

    The center-right Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes: "As a martyr of freedom of opinion and a chief witness to charges made by broad swathes of the population, Sarrazin will haunt [Germany's political class] for a long time. Indignant comments from the likes of the interior minister that the problems described by Sarrazin have long been known sound like mockery in the ears of many people: if the problems have been known that long, why has so little been done to deal with them?"

    The center-right Die Welt writes: "The breadth and depth of the support in opinion polls for Sarrazin's theses make clear how uneasy Germans are across the political spectrum with the current integration situation…. Thanks to Sarrazin the debate on integration has now received the prominence it deserves."
    http://www.hudson-ny.org/1547/german...im-immigration
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

    ~Aristotle

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    Germany Wake Up......


    Face The Facts..
    Wahrheit Macht Freiheit.
    http://www.rheinwiesenlager.de
    HISTORY IS NOT HISTORY - UNLESS IT IS THE 100% TRUTH

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    Senior Member Einherier's Avatar
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    Der deutsche Michel schläft noch,er träumt zwar ein wenig unruhig aber er lässt sich noch einlullen von der linken Politik.
    Er wird erst wach wenn es an das eingemachte geht.ABER dann bricht der Sturm los und wir vernichten das System(wie zum Bsp.das Kaiserreich oder die DDR). Aber dahin dauert es immer ein wenig.
    Mein Blut für Thor. Mein Schwert für Tyr. Mein Herz für Freyja. Mein Leben für Odin.

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    "Hmm, maybe this was a bad idea"


    At least they're finally waking up. Took them long enough.
    Proud to be Germanic.

    Even though my ancestry is English, Germany is my favorite country.

  7. #17
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    "From today's perspective, the immigration of guest workers in the 1960s and 1970s was a gigantic mistake."
    A gigantic mistake that showed an abysmal absence of foresight. Why they couldn't see that allowing in fast-&-large-breeding Turks into the then West Germany was allowing a hydra to incubate and develop is quite beyond me. Once you get these breeding reptiles in your country as guests, they don't just pack up and leave when their time is up, they stay and breed.

  8. #18
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    "Do citizens feel abandoned on the question of integration? Or, asked another way, does Germany have a fertile breeding ground for the kind of populist right-wing party that is already par for the course in many European countries?"
    Yes, citizens feel abandoned by the question of integration. Because first of all Germans should be "integrated" into the political landscape and its decisions that affects them. But the truth is, that Germans are de-integrated in favor of the "integration" of foreigners. Or in other words, the system supports the vanishing of Germans and their replacement with "foreign workers".

    All the "big parties" always talk about social justice. But it means for them free-rides for (illegal) immigrants, while it has been made increasingly harder for Germans to get welfare at all. Visitors from foreign countries (on vacation etc) can get free health care in case they need it, while Germans are denied care entirely if they dont have an insurance. This group becomes bigger too through "reforms" of the social system that always turn out to be a disadvantage for native Germans. The current "record numbers" of employed people in Germany are a gross statistical fraud, because new regulations and the already mentioned systematic discrimination against Germans leaves a huge number of unemployed Germans out of any statistics.

    But also on another scale the anti-German stance of the big parties becomes ever more apparent, the EU and the bailout programmes for failed countries. All socalled "solutions" to those problems always end with the German taxpayer and small businesses paying the bill, whether its the direct transfer union, Eurobonds or whatever else they came up with to spare the banks from eating their own soup.

    This angers increasingly small and middle-size businesses, who have been put at disadvantages over the last two decades anyway due to the increased "liberalization" of the markets, and now they're expected to pay the Ivory Tower Euro dreams of "political elites" that are entirely disconnected from reality and the people. The big businesses and the banks are not asked to participate in those costs, and in that all big parties are united, CSU/CDU, SPD, FDP (although they cant be called a big party anymore, being kicked off all federal Landtage now where there were elections this year) and even the Greens, just the methods to make them pay differ.


    The problem is that there is no alternative. There simply is no "right populist" party to vote for among those who are angered. They will neither vote for the Linke (although they have the right arguments concerning the banks, big businesses and the deregulated markets etc) nor will they vote for the NPD, despite them having an economic alternative model. The mono-topic parties REPs, Pro's etc dont have economic questions on their agenda at all, so they arent even in the equation and none of them is on the screens of the growing group of angered people.


    The real question is, why could such a "right populist" party never establish itself in Germany or why did no one feel the urge to found one? It's not that these problems are anything new. Norbert Blüm told us 30 years ago about the "threat of an agening population", and all the parties since then have done is to increase the problem for the Germans systematically through more immigration and systematic discrimination of Germans and crippling of their chances. Like the Greens in reaction to the nuclear power plants, there should have been one party showing up answering to that question.

    Although the DVU could be seen as such a counter-party to the (anti-German) mainstream, they never could profile themselves to be an alternative for CDU or SPD voters unhappy with the inactivity and unwillingness to address the declining folk question and its underlying policies and agendas.


    Einherier, you're right, the German Michel obviously is too gullible to the mainstream and deliberately ignoring the real questions of our time. Too coward to stand up and prefers to be fooled.

    While former changes were mere shifts of organising the same folk body, this time it may be too late when the German Michel wakes up, because now it's not just the form of state or organisation, but a critical mass of foreigners who give a damn about Germans and will happily pick up the fight against us, sided by the Leftists utopia dreamers and maybe NATO too who already once established a muslim state on European soil and probably will jump in for the "defense" of the minorities here as well.


    Where's the way to go? How do we wake up a critical mass of our people, as long as we still are the majority?
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    The real question is, why could such a "right populist" party never establish itself in Germany or why did no one feel the urge to found one? It's not that these problems are anything new. Norbert Blüm told us 30 years ago about the "threat of an agening population", and all the parties since then have done is to increase the problem for the Germans systematically through more immigration and systematic discrimination of Germans and crippling of their chances. Like the Greens in reaction to the nuclear power plants, there should have been one party showing up answering to that question.
    These issues are certainly not new. I can remember reading in Time magazine as far back as the mid-1970s that Germany, or West Germany as she then was, was facing a future population shock as the Germans' birth rate was so low. If I remember correctly, the German govt was discussing measures to increase the birth rate among indigenous Germans, including some sort of an allowance to German couples for children born similar to child endowment.

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    Senior Member Einherier's Avatar
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    Die ganze Situation in Deutschland erinnert mich ein wenig an den Morgenthau-Plan(http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau-Plan).Ist es der Clique um Franklin D. Roosevelt gelungen Deutschland zu vernichten.Deutschland - Die Milchkuh Europas?

    Und hier noch ein ein interessanter Bericht über ein Interview mit dem türkischen Staatspräsident Abdullah Gül
    http://www.jungefreiheit.de/Single-N...b4b642e.0.html
    Mein Blut für Thor. Mein Schwert für Tyr. Mein Herz für Freyja. Mein Leben für Odin.

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