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Thread: Moslem Europe: the Demographic Time Bomb

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho_pixie View Post
    depressing....but what can/should be done to prevent it?
    Thrown the muslims out of europe. But real question should be how ?

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannerheim View Post
    Thrown the muslims out of europe. But real question should be how ?
    good quesion, but not what i meant by my own

    i guess i should have said "what can/should be done to address the low birth rate in the native population?"

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    AW: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Thanks @Agrippa for your balanced opinion and for bringing back some rationality to this very emotional topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    But one shouldnt generalise that too much. F.e. what Lutherans became in the decades after World War 2 is something very different from what Luther wanted, in parts even the opposite and too often absolute degeneration.
    Yes, I can agree with that. If one reads Luther's "Tischreden" or what he said about the Jews one can hardly suppose that he would have agreed with the kind of liberal Protestantism we are seeing today in Europe. If there were a living Luther today, he'd probably call for a second and even more radical reformation (or emigrate to the US and become an Evangelical Fundamentalist). One might add pre-Vatican II Catholicism as a form of Catholicism that was at least conscious of its own mission and acted as a unifying force for much of Europe. In any case it would never have lowered itself to 'apologizing' to Islam for making critical (and true) statements about it like the present Pope did. The weakness of Christianity has become very much apparent in this recent incident.

    I dont say all Christian movements and beliefs being that bad, I dont just believe in reviving Christianity being a solution to anything, nor that everything was ok when Christian beliefs ruled, because they were from the beginning wrong in many very important areas. Its rather about a historical retrospection in which one can see positive and negative influences of Christianity. I might think of keeping up certain Christian traditions being valuable, but others not in an eclectic way, but I won't "buy the whole product". As a European, occidental individual, I can hardly simply dismiss Christianity its simply too deep rooted in the European identity, whether one wants to accept that or not, with all goods and bads, with everything great and pitiful, it was a major factor in shaping what Europe is and Europeans are now.
    Well, the traditional and conservative forms of Christianity also had their black spots (keeping the believers ignorant, promoting superstition, persecuting dissenters, preventing free scientific research etc.), but they were still standing far above the level of what we see today in what could be the last decades of a Christian Europe.

    If we look at the present situation, the question what was once valuable and what went wrong with Christianity seems to be a rather academic one. To me the question today seems no longer to be how the old type of Christianity can be revived but what can take its place in the future. This is is still an undecided question. The only thing I know is that I surely don't want Islam to replace it. With becoming Muslims we'd also merge with the ethnic/racial groups that are the main exponents of this religion (in Germany mostly Turks, in France Arabs, in Britain Pakistanis, in Skandinavia maybe Somalis or whatever).

    We shouldnt be too ignorant about our own historical past and traditions, only try to get rid of what harms us, be it new or old, Christian or not, rational and useful for the individuals, group and species, that matters most...I dont care who said something right or wrong, I only care whether something is right or wrong, true or untrue, can be proven or falsified, being useful or harmful for the people.
    Yes, surely. But you're arguing from a purely intellectual point of view. What most people look for in a religion is, however, something more emotional. If Christianity has neutralized itself through its self-destructive liberalism while a return to Heathenry and other alternatives lack emotional appeal, the only remaining option will be - Islam. The question is: How can we prevent this?

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho_pixie
    I guess i should have said "what can/should be done to address the low birth rate in the native population?"
    I fear that all attempts to use economical or other incentives to raise the birth rate will fail. We need a radical change in our political systems and a new vision for a common European future (not the mercantile and bureaucratic vision of the EU, but one that brings about a completely new spirit). If a revolution doesn't take place within the next two or three decades, I think the two millenia old project "Europe" will be finished physically and ideally.
    Last edited by Pervitinist; Thursday, November 23rd, 2006 at 04:49 AM.

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    Re: AW: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    I fear that all attempts to use economical or other incentives to raise the birth rate will fail. We need a radical change in our political systems and a new vision for a common European future (not the mercantile and bureaucratic vision of the EU, but one that brings about a completely new spirit).
    i agree completely that there needs to be a major shift in ideology for the low birthrate trend to be reversed...it just makes me wonder what that would have to be?
    should the solution (i.e. the necessary "replacement" idealogy) be implemented politically, via religion or by some other means?

    it seems to me that neither a political nor a religious solution would work and there needs to be some other way of instilling these new values in the population...i think education and self-reflection is the answer. by increasing people's exposure to history, philosophy and basic biology it will become clear to them that they are in possesion of something quite precious in their DNA (more so than any amount of money or material goods they can aquire) and it will become obvious to them that the most important thing they can do is ensuring further survival of this DNA (the only use for money being to help promote the success of their offspring)...this may be a bit too idealistic, but to be honest i can't think of anything else...

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho_pixie View Post
    good quesion, but not what i meant by my own

    i guess i should have said "what can/should be done to address the low birth rate in the native population?"
    Ok,allright. I guess european (german) women just have to start birthing more inhabitants then. Easier said than done. Low birth rate isnt the biggest problem though a problem nevertheless.Bigger problem is those raping and looting filthy turks and negroids who ruin the german people racially. First germans should remove these aliens from their society and then they should start thinking fixing the low birth rate.

    We europeans should take example from China and from Africa in this increasing matter.These people who increases as fast like filthy sewer rats have found the way super fast increasing.Simply women should find their places again as a birthmachines,idea what todays feministic europe have ruined.

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannerheim View Post
    Ok,allright. I guess european (german) women just have to start birthing more inhabitants then. Easier said than done. Low birth rate isnt the biggest problem though a problem nevertheless.Bigger problem is those raping and looting filthy turks and negroids who ruin the german people racially. First germans should remove these aliens from their society and then they should start thinking fixing the low birth rate.

    We europeans should take example from China and from Africa in this increasing matter.These people who increases as fast like filthy sewer rats have found the way super fast increasing.Simply women should find their places again as a birthmachines,idea what todays feministic europe have ruined.
    oh wow...that's painful...

    first of all, let me asure you that there is absolutely no way you can convince 50% of the population that their rightful place is to be a "birthing machine"...

    As for china and africa, the birth rate in China is low, and they are thinking of reversing their one-child policy, and in Africa the reason they have such a high birth rate is because there is a need for workers on the family unit scale. their economy is rudamentary enough that the need for workers is felt at the most basic level - this will never work for europe (unless we revert back to farming...and just like the "birthing machine"-thing this just isn't going to happen, at least not by choice).

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannerheim View Post
    We europeans should take example from China and from Africa in this increasing matter.These people who increases as fast like filthy sewer rats have found the way super fast increasing.Simply women should find their places again as a birthmachines,idea what todays feministic europe have ruined.
    Beautiful extensions of the race, co-builders of the race. There is no way that in 2006 or in the coming future, women will even contemplate accepting the role of 'birthmachines'. Motherhood is one of the most beautiful phenomena in nature, and only a realization of such, and love for the race can help solve the birthrate problem. The whole national body must be made to understand it.

    Race is not valued, motherhood, and love of the female extensions of the race will not be valued either.

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho_pixie View Post
    oh wow...that's painful...

    first of all, let me asure you that there is absolutely no way you can convince 50% of the population that their rightful place is to be a "birthing machine"...

    As for china and africa, the birth rate in China is low, and they are thinking of reversing their one-child policy, and in Africa the reason they have such a high birth rate is because there is a need for workers on the family unit scale. their economy is rudamentary enough that the need for workers is felt at the most basic level - this will never work for europe (unless we revert back to farming...and just like the "birthing machine"-thing this just isn't going to happen, at least not by choice).

    Convincing the population to do something isnt impossible, if only the leadership and advertising ( propaganda ) is right kind.

    As for China,i meant Chinas population for many thousand years till this day and its way of increasing.I know Chinas modern policy,"only 1 child" but theres still those couple more secret childs in basement and in attic (hide from government). Anyway,what i meant was that China havent got population over billion just trough miracle but by a hard and systematic increasing. Back in the days,one chinese had something like 15 descendants..etc..Its in their culture..or was.

    As for africa ,they have such high birth rates cause women have no rights there,thats the reason and no other.If same would apply to europe,things would be different.

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by ForwardEyes View Post
    Motherhood is one of the most beautiful phenomena in nature, and only a realization of such, and love for the race can help solve the birthrate problem. The whole national body must be made to understand it.

    Race is not valued, motherhood, and love of the female extensions of the race will not be valued either.
    European women have already changed racially and culturally to a islamic negroids when they realize the importance of motherhood.It will be too late.

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    Re: One third of all European children will be born to Muslim families by 2025

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannerheim View Post
    Convincing the population to do something isnt impossible, if only the leadership and advertising ( propaganda ) is right kind.
    technically speaking, nothing is impossible, but what you were proposing is so highly improbable that it may well be impossible

    Anyway,what i meant was that China havent got population over billion just trough miracle but by a hard and systematic increasing. Back in the days,one chinese had something like 15 descendants..etc..Its in their culture..or was.
    @ "kids in the attic"
    that was also somewhat true for europe - "back in the day", but modern lifestyles are so different from what they were that there is no going back...also note that despite high population in china, the majority of scientific achievement were made in europe, the concept of "quality over quantity" should not be so easily discarded.

    As for africa ,they have such high birth rates cause women have no rights there,thats the reason and no other.
    i mean no disrespect, but you have not shown yourself to be enough of an authority on africa to justify making such statements.

    If same would apply to europe,things would be different.
    that's true - it would not be europe...i am not sure how to interpret the above statement. is it misogyny or simple statement of fact?

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