Irish and Swedes

[Rodskarl Dubhgall]

These two are supposed to be together, eh? What is so remarkable about their connection? I only know that they have emotional difficulties, especially with alcohol.

[symmakhos]

I've never heard that the Irish and the Swedes would be "connected" in any way. Says who?

[Milesian]

Can't say I've heard of that either. What is your source?
As for emotional difficulties - of what kind?
Alcoholism? Actually the statistics show Ireland drinks less per capita than nations like France and Italy. Not sure about Sweden but I imagine it's the same story.

Saying all Irish or Swedes are alcoholics is like saying all Americans wear stetsons and fire pistols randomly into the air, or all Russians wear furry hats and do Cossak dancing all day.

Stereotypes can be amusing, but they are an inaccurate exagerration at best.

[RusViking]

The only connection I have made is genetic.....UP population via YSTR.org database. Seems that the Dal area (Uppland, Roslagen) of Sweden, Basques in Spain and some other specific areas in Europe (Western France and Croatia) have this very specific UP haplotype. The Irish are genetically similiar to the Basques and thus the connection to Sweden.

PS. I don't wear a Stetsen but I have been known to randomly fire weapons into the air....

[Rodskarl Dubhgall]

The only connection I have made is genetic.....UP population via YSTR.org database. Seems that the Dal area (Uppland, Roslagen) of Sweden, Basques in Spain and some other specific areas in Europe (Western France and Croatia) have this very specific UP haplotype. The Irish are genetically similiar to the Basques and thus the connection to Sweden.

PS. I don't wear a Stetsen but I have been known to randomly fire weapons into the air....

Is this a Brunn UP? Please describe in detail.

[Milesian]

I believe Rusviking refers to a haplotype, rather than a phenotype.
Actually, these areas share a similar and possibly related phenotype (although they are not identical).

Paleoatlantid in Britain & Ireland, Berid among the Basques and Tydal in Scandinavia.

This genetic similarity shows them to be likely descandants of the earliest modern human hunter-gatherers, they are sometimes known as Old Europeans

[Rodskarl Dubhgall]

I knew there was a connection between those areas. Now, what is it linking them by appearance? What do they look like as opposed to others in their area?

[Milesian]

Well, if I remember correctly they tend to show archaic features and seem to be derived from Cro-Magnid types. They are generally short or of medium height, robust as opposed to gracile and generally brunette and usually with dark or dark-mixed eyes. PA's tend to have very fair skin as well, which is usually taken to be a UP trait. I'm not sure about the other two.

Tydals sometimes show a pseudo-mongolid look and some have theorised they have mixed with Lapps or some others.
I would imagine Berids from Iberia would likely have slightly darker skin than the others. No doubt there has been some degree of mixing with other types in their surrounding enviroments, but they are all derived from an Old Atlantic type

[Rodskarl Dubhgall]

Do you know where I can find a pic of a Tydal? I might have that in my mixture.

What's the difference between the phenotype level vs haplotype?

RusViking, are you absolutely sure of your ancestry? I found that my forefathers are from Roslagen, but without a genetic classification system, just historical studies, geographical references and personal records of my clan's expansion from Uppland to Northumberland. I am graced with a saga reference to my home. It is so funny that my forefathers came to RHODE ISLAND as well.

[Milesian]

Here are some pics of a woman deemed to be Tydal
I think you can see Lappish traits which may be suggestive of inter-breeding with them. You don't tend to see this in British PA's and especially not in Berids from Spain :

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/rastyper7.jpg

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/rastyper8.jpg


Haplotypes relate to genetics, while Phenotype relates to outward appearance. Phenotype is obviously related to genetics, but they are not necessarily convergent with a person's haplotypes.