View Poll Results: What's your stance on intra-Germanic mixing?

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  • It's acceptable / I don't mind it.

    84 56.76%
  • It's acceptable only as long as it's not done in big numbers.

    48 32.43%
  • It's unacceptable. Each should stay with his own ethnic group.

    12 8.11%
  • Other opinion. ( Write it in the thread)

    4 2.70%
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Thread: Intra-Germanic Relationships

  1. #41
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    I dont have a problem with it. The majority of us white Americans are of English German mix. My wifes family was Dutch and Irish. I can see were we would be considered not as pure as different subcultures in Europe. I guess we a uniquely Americans.

  2. #42
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    I have mixed views on this. On one hand my family has uniform ancestry and has not been in America for very long so I would personally not have any problems marrying a German. If I happened to fall in love with a man from another Germanic country I would make sure our children knew the traditions and languages from both cultures. On the other hand I think I can see why Europeans would not want to marry Americans. Trust me, I live here, and sometimes it really does seem like a lost cause. Just about nobody here is concerned at all with their family identity. At least that is the case where I live, hopefully elsewhere in America it is different.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by vectis
    A lot of british men think its wonderful they can pick up some slav girl with ease now we are all in the EU. Even if you marry a white foreigner it slowly breeds acceptance of 'foreigness' and before long even racialist families will tolerate mixture with non whites.
    Well, 'white foreigners' in Britain are hardly racially similar to British natives anyway. Weird Pole faces stick out like a sore thumb to me, so I'd argue that intermixture with them is direct race-mixing, and not just something that leads to it. Also, I've no doubt this is a sensitive subject for you, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but how do you feel about your own ancestors mixing with Spaniards, and how do you feel about having ancestry atypical for a Briton?

    --------------

    Personally, I'm opposed to mixture that's uncommon, and I'd never introduce a nationality into my bloodline that wasn't already there. Being wholly of British Isles stock as far as is traceable, it'd just feel weird and against what preservationism stands for to bring even a continental Germanic into the familial fold. It's no big deal, I'm sure, to those who already have it, though. And since I can at least surmise I have some Danish ancestry, and I know, of course, that the Dutch and North Germans are very genetically and culturally close to my own people, I suppose mixing with them wouldn't be a massive deal. But, still, recent Dutch or North German heritage is simply too uncommon in the Northern English for me to feel unhypocritical in 'breeding out' even to them.

  4. #44
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    I noticed in the latest posts some people refer to race-mixing. This topic is about inter-Germanic relationships, like Anglo-German, not about all-white or interracial relationships.

    I want to know how people feel about the mixing of various Germanic ethnicities because it's a relevant question in the context of Germanic preservation and it's not that rare. Some people on this site, including Staff ranks, are engaged in this type of mixing.

    By the way I'm not surprised the melting pot argument comes mostly from ignorant Americans. Nation hasn't only a biological basis, culture, mentality and soil are relevant too, so to pretend that an Anglo-Danish or Anglo-German relationship wouldn't be mixing or is excusable for that reason is to ignore any kind of national aspect.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by medievalfaun View Post
    I have mixed views on this. On one hand my family has uniform ancestry and has not been in America for very long so I would personally not have any problems marrying a German. If I happened to fall in love with a man from another Germanic country I would make sure our children knew the traditions and languages from both cultures. On the other hand I think I can see why Europeans would not want to marry Americans. Trust me, I live here, and sometimes it really does seem like a lost cause. Just about nobody here is concerned at all with their family identity. At least that is the case where I live, hopefully elsewhere in America it is different.
    Well said Fräulein Hesse.

    My own contribution this thread is a piece that describes some 'mentality' differences between German and American, with the intent to 'neutralize' the possible minefields when either socializing, doing business or dating.

    And although it is titled "Dating Etiquette in Germany" it contains many titbits
    and general attitudes that makes it recommended reading for any German per se and Americans with interest in Germany/s from whatever reason.

    It sticklers with the many small things, that sometimes complicate the with each other, for instance the 'beloved' small-talk.


    Dating in itself is a very personal and sophisticated matter. Any advice can hardly be appropriate here. According to Lynne, an American living in Germany, " ... if there's any genuine connection between two people, it'll survive whatever differences may arise in the early stages of dating, and if those differences seem too overwhelming and/or the relationship doesn't survive for other reasons, trying to make too many adaptations in the early stages is NOT going to help! The most that any such "advice" can normally do is perhaps to spare an occasional bruised feeling that might result from a minor misunderstanding. And where German and American cultures are concerned, the potential for culturally-based misunderstandings is relatively negligible, so if two people aren't open-minded enough to try to work through such insignificant differences, the relationship doesn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell of surviving anyway."

    However for most people whose sweetheart is German, a foreigner, there are plenty of cultural nuances and minor difficulties resulting sometimes in an alienation. Why not try to avoid it? Let's listen again to Lynne, the expert in human relations in general and in relations with a German man in particular. Being an American, she has unique experience of successful dating and communicating with a German. Here are her practical recommendations and advice for American women dating German men (can be vice-versa: for American men dating German women):

    : wub : For the most part, you don't need to worry particularly about any major differences, mostly because gender roles here aren't significantly different from what they are in the States. For the most part, you can treat him pretty much like you would almost any American man. For example, if you're the old-fashioned type, he's quite unlikely to complain if you expect him to pay for most of the dates; he'll probably half-expect it. But if you happen to be a supporter of women's rights (and the responsibilities that go along with that), feel free to pay for the dates sometimes or half the time. It might surprise him a bit, but he will most likely appreciate it, especially if he's on the pitifully low budget that most students are on. He'll probably try to pay the bill anyway, as Germans often fight each other for the "privilege" of paying the bills, but you can then secretly pay the next bill when HE's not looking. Or, if he's the real old-fashioned type, like some American men are, he might have the perverse response of thinking that his manhood's been insulted. But if he's as young as in his 20s, that's highly unlikely. So feel free to follow your normal instincts in this regard. If you feel unsure what his attitude might be about such things, feel free to ask him! Direct questions rarely offend Germans (assuming the question isn't too personal), and they're typically more than willing to give straight-forward answers.

    : wub : Germans and Americans have a few different standards regarding what constitutes "politeness". Americans tend to define politeness in terms of "friendliness": smiling, telling "white lies" to avoid hurting people's feelings, pretending to like people even if we don't, saying "Hi, how are you?" whether we really care how they are or not, etc. Germans, however, tend to consider "respect" to be the proper way to show "politeness", and "respect" assumes that the other person wants an honest answer, not some pretty little "white lie". So, if you're really wanting your ego stroked, DON'T ask him, "So, how d'you like my new dress?" You might not like the answer that he gives. Likewise, DON'T EVER say anything to him "just to be nice" if you don't really mean it; he is too likely to take you quite literally at your word and then be terribly hurt later when he finds out that you didn't really mean it.

    : wub : Don't try to make too much "chit chat" or "small talk" with him. Most Germans know little or nothing of the art of talking about banal, superficial topics as a way of "breaking the ice" with new acquaintances; that custom belongs to American-style "friendliness" and is not part of German "respect". Germans also often react negatively to the shallow, superficial quality of casual friendships/acquaintanceships in the U.S., and so he might react negatively towards you if you engage in much "light" conversation. If you're looking for good topics for conversation, try: politics, current events, philosophy, or any subject he's studying in school.

    : wub : Don't be afraid to voice opinions that might be different from his; if your opinion is at least logical, well-reasoned, and well-informed, he will more likely respect you for having your own mind, rather than be offended by you for having a different opinion.

    : wub : And if you DON'T know much about international politics, news, current events, foreign cultures, etc., then LEARN! FAST! Americans have an international reputation for being extremely ignorant about the rest of the world -- because most Americans ARE ignorant! Germans, however, usually are NOT!!!

    http://www.germancul...y/aa081300a.htm


    Exercising Your Sense of Humor

    Laughter is known to be one of the best ways of making friends. No good dating is possible without it either. Joking, horsing around, laughing make people more open, break any cultural barriers, and - yes! - help them fall in love.

    There are some peculiarities of exercising your sense of humor with a German. Help yourself to some more advice from Lynne:

    : wub : When it comes to humor, use some common sense. When you first meet most Germans, they might seem rather humorless, but after you get to know them, most of them can relax and enjoy a good belly-laugh as well as any American. And they tend to laugh at pretty much the same things -- except, of course, for anything specifically culturally or linguistically based. Your German date might not understand an English pun any better than you would understand a German pun, and he certainly WON'T know anything about "Leave It to Beaver" or anything about American culture in the '50s and '60s, though he MIGHT know more about American politics in the '50s than YOU know! He might also know Star Trek, the Simpsons, Home Improvement (called "Hoer mal wer da haemmert!" here), and quite a bit about modern Americana.

    : wub : DON'T make any stupid, tasteless jokes about Nazis or saluting him and saying, "Heil Hitler!", etc. He's no more likely to be Nazi or neo-Nazi than your next-door neighbor is, and he's more likely to be a little on the sensitive side on the issue than your neighbor might be. You can ASK him anything you want to know about Germany during WWII (though perhaps preferably after you get to know him a little better), but don't make any jokes at his or any other German's expense. Most Germans have a bit of a guilt complex on the issue, even the very young ones, partly because so many nations throughout the world continue to seek to punish Germany for what happened 55+ years ago.

    : wub : And another thing: while dating a foreigner, remember that love is all that matters, and everything else - inevitable reaction of the relatives, foreign language, new food, different climate - are mere trifles and you can overcome them TOGETHER.
    So yes, recommended reading for Germans and Americans, but also for any other European, even if only to check one's own preferences and behavior.

  6. #46
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    Would it be possible for you to provide a concrete definition of the actual unit of population that you feel is that which needs to be preserved? As it stands you confusedly interchange "ethnicity" and "country" however it suits you, which makes your arguments come across as a load of nonsense. Germany, like the US, is very much a product of inter-ethnic mixing; if you subscribe to the notion that the current Germany and its (Americanized) "culture" is what needs to be preserved, then essentially you're being little more than a hypocrite. One can only wonder why you're so adamant about this; it always seems as though those that scream the loudest about certain things have something to hide. Care to enlighten us as to what your impeccable German ancestry is? Was the father of your child also from "Brandenburg" and what is his ancestry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I noticed in the latest posts some people refer to race-mixing. This topic is about inter-Germanic relationships, like Anglo-German, not about all-white or interracial relationships.

    I want to know how people feel about the mixing of various Germanic ethnicities because it's a relevant question in the context of Germanic preservation and it's not that rare. Some people on this site, including Staff ranks, are engaged in this type of mixing.

    By the way I'm not surprised the melting pot argument comes mostly from ignorant Americans. Nation hasn't only a biological basis, culture, mentality and soil are relevant too, so to pretend that an Anglo-Danish or Anglo-German relationship wouldn't be mixing or is excusable for that reason is to ignore any kind of national aspect.

  7. #47
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    I accept mixed Germanic relationships only if one of the partners adapts and integrates to the culture of the other. We don't need any "dual heritage" children. It's the children who will suffer for the selfishness of their parents.

    If a Dane or Norwegian comes to Germany he will have to fit in Germany and make sure the children will be Germans. But to be honest to me it's saddening if not sickening when a German leaves Germany to be with a foreigner and sheds German culture. Germany is more and more invaded by foreigners every day and our birth rates are negative. An exodus of Germans would hurt.

    I have a feeling the people who like mixed relationships don't have strong nationalistic instincts either. For some people it's first a foreigner from another Germanic country, then a foreigner from another European country (non-Germanic) and you know where this takes to. Xenophilia should be discouraged so I wouldn't accept promoting such trends.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCP3 View Post
    : wub : Germans and Americans have a few different standards regarding what constitutes "politeness". Americans tend to define politeness in terms of "friendliness": smiling, telling "white lies" to avoid hurting people's feelings, pretending to like people even if we don't, saying "Hi, how are you?" whether we really care how they are or not, etc. Germans, however, tend to consider "respect" to be the proper way to show "politeness", and "respect" assumes that the other person wants an honest answer, not some pretty little "white lie". So, if you're really wanting your ego stroked, DON'T ask him, "So, how d'you like my new dress?" You might not like the answer that he gives. Likewise, DON'T EVER say anything to him "just to be nice" if you don't really mean it; he is too likely to take you quite literally at your word and then be terribly hurt later when he finds out that you didn't really mean it.

    : wub : Don't try to make too much "chit chat" or "small talk" with him. Most Germans know little or nothing of the art of talking about banal, superficial topics as a way of "breaking the ice" with new acquaintances; that custom belongs to American-style "friendliness" and is not part of German "respect". Germans also often react negatively to the shallow, superficial quality of casual friendships/acquaintanceships in the U.S., and so he might react negatively towards you if you engage in much "light" conversation. If you're looking for good topics for conversation, try: politics, current events, philosophy, or any subject he's studying in school.

    : wub : Don't be afraid to voice opinions that might be different from his; if your opinion is at least logical, well-reasoned, and well-informed, he will more likely respect you for having your own mind, rather than be offended by you for having a different opinion.

    : wub : And if you DON'T know much about international politics, news, current events, foreign cultures, etc., then LEARN! FAST! Americans have an international reputation for being extremely ignorant about the rest of the world -- because most Americans ARE ignorant! Germans, however, usually are NOT!!!
    If this is supposed to outline the differences between German and American culture, it's no wonder I feel like an alien here. I must be some oddly misplaced German/European Germanic type, because that pretty much describes me. I despise superficial talk, and whenever someone asks "how are you?" I have to fight back an urge to really tell them.

    My view on the original topic is that this is not a terribly large problem compared to the carnage being wrought upon all our respective nations by absolute aliens forced upon us by the traitors in charge. Ideally, these intra-Germanic matches would be uncommon but acceptable if the partner who is adapting to a new land feels a love and connection to that land as strong as they feel to their new mate.

    That being said, there has traditionally been some level of mixing in the artistic and upper classes for centuries. Albrecht Dürer had Hungarian roots, The Wagner brothers Wieland and Wolfgang, the grandsons of Richard Wagner, were only a quarter German themselves... their mother Winifred was mostly Welsh and their Grandmother Cosima was half French and half Hungarian. Yet these are exceptional cases involving exceptional people. They cannot be viewed as normative in any way, nor can they be used as an excuse to perpetuate large scale intra-European or even intra-Germanic mixing of populations. Artists are just weird, and should healthily be regarded as such by the general public.

    There are some areas which have remained relatively pure and free from outside genetic influence, though. Frisia and Denmark are two of these. I think areas which are relatively pure should remain so, and if members of these purer populations should wish to marry Germanics outside their group, they should perhaps move out of their own areas to more cosmopolitan Germanic cities.
    Most people think as they are trained to think, and most people make a majority.

  9. #49
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    A case study...

    Myself and my girlfriend are an example of an intra-Germanic relationship.

    I am a Boer whose ancestry hails from Old Saxony and Frisia with possible Danish ancestry from my maternal grandmother's side, my ancestors where 17th century Dutch- and 18th century German immigrants to South Africa. My Girlfriend is a Scanian Swede with a Danish maternal grandmother. I have been classified as predominantly Faelid with some Nordid influences (although some have said I have a strong Daleo-Faelid look), she has been classified as a Borreby with Nordid influences.

    We have decided to start a life together in Sweden, it has therefore entailed me moving to Sweden and I have slowly begun assimilating myself into Swedish culture by learning their cultural ways and customs and the Swedish language. Although this is still very new to me at present and somewhat daunting, it is fascinating at the same time, seeing as I enjoy learning about all Germanic cultures and languages and I respect and admire the Swedish and greater Scandinavian people's history and way of being greatly. But I will forever remain a Boer in heart, mind and soul, although I don't think this will be negative to my Swedish hosts at all.

    Our relationship developed because of a general mutual understanding and attraction, as well as a certain ideological compatibility; we are both National Socialists. It is the aforementioned that we both hope to pass onto our possible offspring, although they will be raised as Swedes because that makes the most sense for them to develop a strong sense of identity in the place of their birth.

    As they reach adolescence I would like to educate/inform them about their ancestry that they have received from myself. I think this will help to strengthen the ideological character that me and my girlfriend plan to instill in them and it will most probably result in them having a positive sense of kinship with other Germanics apart from them realising that from the more obvious similarities. Although the ideal situation I envision for them growing up and finding mates would be to do so among the families of a close circle of friends which comprises Swedish National Socialists and other similar minded Swedes, but this goes without saying that if they found a suitable ideological mate from another Germanic ethnicity, it wouldn't be a taboo in the slightest.

    I agree that this is not the ideal situation to preserve Germanic regional/national identities, but I think the ideological aspect of our union may be beneficial to the overall survival and prospering of our greater Germanic race in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    If this is supposed to outline the differences between German and American culture, it's no wonder I feel like an alien here. I must be some oddly misplaced German/European Germanic type, because that pretty much describes me. I despise superficial talk, and whenever someone asks "how are you?" I have to fight back an urge to really tell them.
    Yeah, you are expected to answer "fine thanks" ---even if in that moment just the opposite is true (bad mood etc). If not you are probably asked more questions mostly with concern, which is disturbing even if it is meant nice.
    Because i am not at all into telling strangers or superficial acquaintances any details or "the story of my life", and i don't like to invite " fairy tales " to get over that embarrassing point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    My view on the original topic is that this is not a terribly large problem compared to the carnage being wrought upon all our respective nations by absolute aliens forced upon us by the traitors in charge. Ideally, these intra-Germanic matches would be uncommon but acceptable if the partner who is adapting to a new land feels a love and connection to that land as strong as they feel to their new mate.
    Well, i have no problem with them, and if both are good willing and aware of the mentality differences there shouldn't be major communication problems.
    That's why i posted Lynne's insights, and everybody who is familiar with both, Germans and Americans, knows that things are about as she describes.
    Also as a warning to Germans to not be too straightforward and direct as at home when communicating with Americans, because the latter perceive this German attitude as annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    That being said, there has traditionally been some level of mixing in the artistic and upper classes for centuries. Albrecht Dürer had Hungarian roots, The Wagner brothers Wieland and Wolfgang, the grandsons of Richard Wagner, were only a quarter German themselves... their mother Winifred was mostly Welsh and their Grandmother Cosima was half French and half Hungarian. Yet these are exceptional cases involving exceptional people. They cannot be viewed as normative in any way, nor can they be used as an excuse to perpetuate large scale intra-European or even intra-Germanic mixing of populations. Artists are just weird, and should healthily be regarded as such by the general public.
    Yes i agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    There are some areas which have remained relatively pure and free from outside genetic influence, though. Frisia and Denmark are two of these. I think areas which are relatively pure should remain so, and if members of these purer populations should wish to marry Germanics outside their group, they should perhaps move out of their own areas to more cosmopolitan Germanic cities.
    In general i would say Scandinavians, due to their geographical location (peninsula) and protected by the Baltic Sea, they are certainly more pure Germanic than the Germans. But then all together they are just 20 million souls (~ 5 million Danes, 5 million Norwegians and 10 million Swedes), which is a quarter of the number of the Germans in their dire Central-European geopolitical location and barely more than the Dutch. If putting Vlaams and Dutch together they are more numerous than all three Scandinavian nations together. So the real numbers are on the continent in what was once together as the HRE.

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