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Thread: Medieval Torture Methods

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    The problem I would have with such methods of execution being used today (I have no issue with their historical use) is the potential for unrest and opposition among the general population. If we want the death penalty to be a part of our modern-day judicial system, and for it to be used frequently, which is what I want, then it needs to achieve a certain level of legitimacy in the eyes of the public. This task is made alot easier by using methods that do not make very good material for any sort of sensationalist tabloid news-paper articles of the kind that we could expect to see if we were to pursue the use of execution-methods of the kind described in previous posts.

    Justice should be delivered swiftly by the state and it should take no obvious malign pleasure from the task of removing the criminal from the societal body, which is in itself a just and necessary act in the pursuit of justice and security. The handling and execution needs to be done in a clinical manner, out of public view, reinforcing an image of cold professionalism and beaurocratic efficiency (oxymoron? ) that is not influenced by emotion.
    I'm not a supporter or the death penalty but something must be said about these violent executions like breaking on the wheel. A reason the executions were so gruesome was not so much to take malign pleasure or revenge, but also to deter the population. Because if the population was forced to attend, they would see what could happen to them if they broke the laws and it wouldn't be a fast and swift death. The gruesome fact is it didn't end with the execution. To scare the population even more, the head and body parts of the executed would be hanged somewhere publically, in vastly populated and circulated zones, where the population would walk often. Under Vlad the Impaler there were many Turks impaled and there was a "forest" of death made full of impaled Turks, which scared the other Turks away from invading on some occasions. A modern day act of displaying the executed I've seen in the movies like Der Untergang where the hanged people were attached with a note saying "I fraternised with the Bolshevists" or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Do I understand correctly that they were dissatisfied with the political dominance of the German-speaking populations (Sachsen; to some extent Landler, Banatschwaben) and that's why they revolted? Well, then they certainly deserved the Wheel. No one messes with Germans unpunished, whether Reichsdeutsche or Volksdeutsche - let the world hear that!
    Good question. As generalisation, I could say it was something along those lines for two reasons.

    First, the revolt was the revolt of the "iobagi" which were the largely rural population of serfs who were forced to work on the lands of the Nobles. Most of these serfs were Romanians indeed. But there were also Saxon and Magyar serfs who participated in the revolt but these were fewer, because Saxons and Magyars were privileged classes, while the Romanians only had a status of "tolerated". So that means the serf classes and unprivileged classes and the Romanians were almost congruent. But some Romanians had access to the Noble class too, if they converted to Catholicism for example.

    Second, because of the large number of Romanians, the revolt had "nationalistic" tinges. Because the Romanians wanted the "tolerated" status erased.

    The leader of the revolt, Horea, was a Romanian peasant and he traveled to Vienna four times to protest to Josef the IInd. Finally Josef the 2nd offered a deal to some peasants. He said they could trade the serfdom for compulsory conscription, to defend the borders. But the number of those who enrolled was much bigger than it was expected. Because everyone wanted to escape serfdom and they even preferred to fight and risk dying defending the borders. The Nobles were upset because it meant their work force would vanish, so the conscription was canceled by governor Samuel von Brukenthal.

    A fact of dark irony was, the executioner who used the wheel was a Gypsy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    A fact of dark irony was, the executioner who used the wheel was a Gypsy.
    That's Gypsies for you. They never had a problem doing the dirty work. Thinking about it the condemned is immobilized and there's no real challenge killing him since he can't fight back. I'm guessing Gypsies or Negroes would make the most efficient executioners. They are used to attack people in packs and hold them down to beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    That's Gypsies for you. They never had a problem doing the dirty work. Thinking about it the condemned is immobilized and there's no real challenge killing him since he can't fight back. I'm guessing Gypsies or Negroes would make the most efficient executioners. They are used to attack people in packs and hold them down to beat them.
    It also helps them to take all this negative energy where it is useful. Imagine someone has an innate urge to kill or at least assault - then, if this is used to allow him to act as an executioner, that's a win/win situation: He gets his thrill out of the execution, and his aggressiveness is put to good use rather than leaving it on the streets, where it would harm the general populace.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I'm not a supporter or the death penalty but something must be said about these violent executions like breaking on the wheel. A reason the executions were so gruesome was not so much to take malign pleasure or revenge, but also to deter the population. Because if the population was forced to attend, they would see what could happen to them if they broke the laws and it wouldn't be a fast and swift death. The gruesome fact is it didn't end with the execution. To scare the population even more, the head and body parts of the executed would be hanged somewhere publically, in vastly populated and circulated zones, where the population would walk often. Under Vlad the Impaler there were many Turks impaled and there was a "forest" of death made full of impaled Turks, which scared the other Turks away from invading on some occasions. A modern day act of displaying the executed I've seen in the movies like Der Untergang where the hanged people were attached with a note saying "I fraternised with the Bolshevists" or something like that.
    This is just to clarify what I meant and I am sure you already get this, but since it serves to further explain that particular sentence it might be of value to this thread on its own so bare with me Siebenbürgerin .


    Yes I am aware of that, but I make a difference between then and now, since our societies have changed so dramatically. Back then, no commoner would protest against such punishments or try to use it's gruesomeness in an effort to spread dissent among the population (as dissent was somewhat uncommon at the time ). The situation is different today. The population has become extremely sensitized (and also somewhat rebellious, at least when their liberal dream world is threatened) and this needs to be considered when we are discussing the use of a death penalty in this day and age.

    My comment was aimed at those who favor introducing methods of execution today that are as violent and bloody as those of the past, without considering the effect this has on public opinion, which I consider to be counter productive since they are sure to cause major unrest amongst a population that has lost all bearings on what constitutes real justice. These old execution methods would to a modern day European appear sadistic, extreme and unnecessarily brutal, "why are they doing this?" "they are doing it for their own sick pleasure" "they are monsters, no better than Hitler". They cannot understand the reasons, the intentions behind the brutality of such methods or why there should be public executions, even if you were to explain these intentions to them.

    The modern day European may feel that the current judicial system is wrong, but at the same time they are often equally hesitant about going too far in the other direction. They need to be eased in to a way of thinking where a death penalty is acceptable and just, provided that it is not overly brutal or bloody and which is as far removed as possible from the horror stories of history.

    These individuals whom I touched upon with my "malign pleasure" comment, will even promote sexual abuse as a form of punishment ("rapists should be raped themselves"), which is something I wholeheartedly oppose and would never under any cirumstances accept as a part of our judicial system. Of course alot of it is just loud words from people with big mouths who want to sound as radical as possible, but I think it is important to present a sensible take, at all times, on all issues where we want to see change. Just as we don't want people screaming about "fire up the ovens!" when we are adressing immigration, it is simply counter productive to the advancement of our ideas to use language that is not only over the top and unrealistic, but also off-putting to most people.

    I can discuss and support these execution methods as a part of our history, but I wont suggest the decapitation and the placing of heads and limbs on pikes as a form of punishment in our time, no matter how envious I am of our old judicial system .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainraven View Post
    It hardly seems a fast death! Though compared to Death Row I guess it would be. Maybe I'm just a little squeamish but I found it difficult enough to read that description! I don't think I could handle knowing that my country was carrying this cruel and torturous method of execution out!!
    I have been doing research on the colonial period in New England. I find it unbelievable that they hung innocent women as witches. Where were their brains, in the bible as usual. One important man had a son who was afflicted with epilepsy, and he tried to pretend the ailment was caused by witches, rather than admitting is was probably a genetic weakness in his family. He was responsible for many of the hangings. How could they take the hallucinations of those teen age girls, over the word of a fine woman of the community. Actually the girls should have been institutionalized. It is appalling to know that America actually promoted witch hunts.

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