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Thread: Is Belief in Evolution Compatible with the Christian Teachings?

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    Is Belief in Evolution Compatible with the Christian Teachings?

    What would you say? There are several opinions. Some Christians believe that the theory of evolution does not contradict the existence of the Christian god and the theory that he created the world.

    However, I am skeptical about that. What about the theory about human evolving from primates? That would contradict the belief that human was created by God himself from scratch.


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    Doesn't the Bible say that the world is only a thousand years old or something like that? Then there you go. Of course it's incompatible.

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    In terms of the theory of evolution alone, I'd say it's only incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Bible, and not mainstream Christian teachings. The fact that we see so many evolution denial on the Internet and media is probably because breakaway Christian deviants tend to complain the loudest and their preachers are more hungry for attention, not because they're particularly numerous.

    However, while I think it's unnecessary for Christians to bar themselves from the study of evolution because of religious interpretations, I do believe an understanding of evolution and a science-centric approach is correct in being hostile to the Christian world view. As Dawkins said:

    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
    (Originally a Darwin quote? )

    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Doesn't the Bible say that the world is only a thousand years old or something like that?
    IIRC from my time as a Christian youth, the notion that the Earth is only a couple of thousand years old was because of one papal proclamation which was later disproved by other theologists, so that particular literal interpretation is not even correct according to other biblical scholars, not to mention an embarrassment to most modern-day Christians. Because the "young Earth theory" is in conflict with stratigraphy, and therefor also with geography, physics and mathematics, the notion is right up their with the sun revolving around the Earth. That's not Christianity, that's idiocy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf
    That's not Christianity, that's idiocy.
    *lol*

    But that the sun revolves around the earth was only removed from the dogma in the 1980s, after the pope had travelled around the world several times and there just was no way to stick to that anymore

    In general I think evolution and the bible cannot coexist, god painted the stars and the sun and the moon onto some sort of fabric that he hang (and moves) over the earth to create the impression of a sky.
    God made man from clay and because the trick only worked once he cut out the women from the man's rip.
    According to the bible the earth was created shortly before the two were thrown out of paradise, that make approx maybe 2500-3000 years ago.
    Funnily, god also created the jewish folks, although he was quite sick about the fact that Eve ate the apple and stopped communicating with humans altogether.
    The Deluge that is referred to in the bible was about 6000 years ago, prior to the creation of the folks (and also Adam and Eve), so not even the bible is consistent in itself, whether one wants to interprete that literal or not. It just doesnt make sense at all.

    To sum it up: Christianity is idiocy

    No, honestly, how can one believe such bs? It might have been good for christianity (and I guess it was the intention behind) that people couldnt read the stuff themselves, and if they could, they were part of the organisation, and a loyal follower doesnt question (hence: god's ways are inscrutable).

    I remember when I visited the preparation lectures for confirmation (I was 13 or something) and the phreak wanted to sell me the stuff above as truth and I started to ask him some questions. He wasnt very happy and once he left the room crying (!). Obviously I've hit some sensitive points
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    Christianity generally rejects science. Christianity taught people a lot of senseless superstitions, to keep them under control. Example, the earth is flat, don't try to adventure yourself too far or you might fall.

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    I don't think it's incompatible. The way God created the world corresponds with the way science says (the light, the dark, the oceans, the terrestrial ground and so on). But of course Christian theologists who said the world was a thousand years old made the calculations wrong, but in that period we didn't have the means to date rocks the way we can nowadays. We also don't know what was meant by years, if a classic year with 365 days or in a metaphorical sense.

    Science explains the evolution, but it doesn't explain where the universe came from. It had to come from something, and that something is our God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Christianity generally rejects science. Christianity taught people a lot of senseless superstitions, to keep them under control. Example, the earth is flat, don't try to adventure yourself too far or you might fall.
    Isn't that actually a good thing in the context of ethnic preservationism?

    While there were renaissance scientists who understood that the flat Earth theory was wrong, in fact, the bible itself states the Earth is round, their very own theories were flawed too. Galileo, for instance, who was right about the Earth revolving around the Sun, but couldn't prove it because a complete theory of mechanics was lacking, which led him to formulating a wrong theory on the tides.

    From "The politically incorrect guide to Western civilization" (Anthony Esolen): "...It turns out the Church never denied Earth could move around the sun, but insisted Galileo didn't have enough evidence to teach it as a settled fact."

    On topic: The Vatican launched an official statement in february, claiming that the theory of evolution is compatible with the Catholic faith.

    I'd say that point of view is heretical, and the reformist Mgr. Angelo Roncalli has a great deal to do with it; an initiate of a Turkish lodge, a freemason - and a writer of prophecies - who became pope himself (John XXIII) after the winner of the vote of the conclave in 1958 was pressured to withdraw, namely the traditionalist cardinal Giuseppe_Siri, according to the FBI.

    And jesuits - among others - like Pierre Teillard de Chardin, also played a role in undermining the Church from inside, promoting New Age thought over traditional ideas.



    Now antipopes govern the Church, like this pope here, with his stylish inverted cross on the back of his seat, while participating in a mass for the youth.

    For me Pope Pius IX settled the theory of evolution matter for once and for all.

    From the First Vatican Council in 1869-70, that had a section on "Faith and Reason":

    9. "Hence all faithful Christians are forbidden to defend as the legitimate conclusions of science those opinions which are known to be contrary to the doctrine of faith, particularly if they have been condemned by the Church; and furthermore they are absolutely bound to hold them to be errors which wear the deceptive appearance of truth."

    10. "Not only can faith and reason never be at odds with one another but they mutually support each other, for on the one hand right reason established the foundations of the faith and, illuminated by its light, develops the science of divine things; on the other hand, faith delivers reason from errors and protects it and furnishes it with knowledge of many kinds."

    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet
    Christianity taught people a lot of senseless superstitions
    Looking at it from my perspective, it is science that creates the most eleborate and inconceivable theories - the validation of the theory of evolution doesn't only require a belief in miracles - to rescue the theory of Darwin - the modern evolutionist line of thought proposes the existence of parallel universes, like slices of bread, next to each other - and every time two of these universes collide, a new one is "born" with a big bang...

    If one wants to believe that, fine, but it's nothing more than a belief - yet questioning this belief places one on the fringe of our "free" society, where freedom of religion usually means that you're not allowed to mention religion at all. It seems only racism and pedophilia are viewed as bigger evils than intelligent design in Europe.

    I'd say modern Western thought regarding the roots of men is a reflection of mystery religions, not in the least the Sumerian one. And when applicated definitely not less dogmatic than the Catholic church.

    While everybody is free to believe in the theory of evolution, to me, it's a disgrace that the catholic school system totally lost its independence, and is now teaching students either just the theory of evolution, or the theory of evolution combined with creationism - with emphasis on the former.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Galileo, for instance, who was right about the Earth revolving around the Sun, but couldn't prove it because a complete theory of mechanics was lacking.

    From "The politically incorrect guide to Western civilization" (Anthony Esolen): "...It turns out the Church never denied Earth could move around the sun, but insisted Galileo didn't have enough evidence to teach it as a settled fact."
    Kepler and Galileo were in big trouble for their research, and only their influential families saved them from the stake. Other scientist werent so lucky and were killed, not for a lack of proof, but for a dangerous set of proofs which shaked the walls of the 'holy doctrine'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    after the winner of the vote of the conclave in 1958 was pressured to withdraw, namely the traditionalist cardinal Giuseppe_Siri, according to the FBI.
    Wasnt that the guy who died 'mysteriously'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    For me Pope Pius IX settled the theory of evolution matter for once and for all.

    From the First Vatican Council in 1869-70, that had a section on "Faith and Reason":

    9. "Hence all faithful Christians are forbidden to defend as the legitimate conclusions of science those opinions which are known to be contrary to the doctrine of faith, particularly if they have been condemned by the Church; and furthermore they are absolutely bound to hold them to be errors which wear the deceptive appearance of truth."
    So truth must fit into the written word?
    Sounds to me like they would love to burn scientists on the stakes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Looking at it from my perspective
    Well, it wasnt me who wrote that, but anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    it is science that creates the most eleborate and inconceivable theories - the validation of the theory of evolution doesn't only require a belief in miracles - to rescue the theory of Darwin - the modern evolutionist line of thought proposes the existence of parallel universes, like slices of bread, next to each other - and every time two of these universes collide, a new one is "born" with a big bang...
    The thing with theories is (contrary to a 'belief and its written word') that it is scrutinable, expandable and rejectable
    Darwin's theorie of evolution has big holes and is partly inconsistent in itself, well, and? Hundreds of scientist have added, altered, removed and rewritten parts of it and the most have brought it nearer to reality.
    It is a theory in evolution itself, wonderful progressive, dont you think?

    If you would engage with quantum mechanics for a while you'd notice that there is a whole new world, nah universe of possibilities
    In the practical application of quantum mechanics to the real world it is just a fact that the world does consist of more than four dimensions, scientists still argue if that are eight, eleven or twenty four. However, whether that opens the possibility of big-banging new universes in a row (like the mentioned theory), is quite something very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    If one wants to believe that, fine, but it's nothing more than a belief - yet questioning this belief places one on the fringe of our "free" society, where freedom of religion usually means that you're not allowed to mention religion at all. It seems only racism and pedophilia are viewed as bigger evils than intelligent design in Europe.
    Well, it is just that all given facts go against the belief that the world is only a few thousand years old, whether you subscribe to the evolution theory as given by Darwin or not.
    And rejecting facts, prooven facts, places you rightfully at the fringe of society, because in the most cases people who do that are fanatists in one way or another and in their fanatism considered dangerous to the stability of society or its members.

    And I wonder how a so-called highly intelligent religion like christianity could just go against everything that was known already.
    The Hindus describe very detailed and beside that quite accurate the evolution and big bang theory in their writings, which are what, 2500 years old? The time frame (of several quadrillion years), the predicted death of the sun and the universe itself, they knew it all. The Maya knew it, the ancient Greek knew it and Stonehenge could be taken as evidence that the culture that built it (by the way almost 8000 years ago, which would exceed the timeframe of god's creation or any intelligent design/creationism theory) knew it too (although that is open to interpretation, because there are no more information about them, only this very detailed star map, built with almost unmovable stone monsters...).

    So how came they to the idea to throw the complete set of ancient knowledge overboard to create this story about the birth of the earth and man?
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    Many people have been claiming that ancient doctrines/mystery traditions taught evolution. This is completely false, and arrived at only from a modern misinterpretation of doctrine based on modern scientific/materialistic prejudices. Even Aquinas, who was more Hermetic than Christian, believed that human life is a product of the spirit enclosed in the soul which is in (and thus "informs") the semen. As far as I am aware, evolutionary theory has never made mention of a soul or spirit (the latter as Plato's soul of the soul or immortal soul). Evolution is a completely material theory which has nothing whatsoever to do with traditional doctrines.

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    Well I am a Christian and I don't have any problem with real science. The only science I have a hard time with is "social science!" Who decided that I need to "respect" deviant behavior, race mixing, the world is flat theory (jewish reporter from the NY Slimes), that I should not want more children (global warming B.S.) because I am selfish, that by repecting myself and my race that I am a racist, etc... Science, no problem, social science forget it!

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