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Thread: Classify Muhammed Suiçmez

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    Classify Muhammed Suiçmez

    Please attempt to classify Turkish guitarist Muhammed Suiçmez. He was born in Karlsruhe but is apparently of fully Turkish descent (according to Wikipedia).










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    Looks Noric (Dinarid with Nordid influence): Prominent, convex nose, lepto- to mesomorph, quite mature build.
    Imagine him with darker hair and pigmentation, and he would fit well into the classical dinaric pattern, the back of his head seeming significantly more curvoccipital than the classical Dinarid's, however.

    Especially in the first two pictures, he looks a little bit like Italian football coach Giovanni Trappatoni: Perhaps there is some mediterranid (atlantomediterranid?) as well as some very subordinate alpinoid influence (on the last picture, he reminds me a little bit of Michel Houellebecq who was classified as gracilised, leptomorph alpinid somewhere else on Skadi if I am not mistaken, but it's hardly more than the expression). To discern this, more data would be required, especially height/weight of the subject.

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    Blond Anatolians

    It is pretty amazing isn't it? I have a full blooded Turk where I work and he also has blond hair and blue eyes. However, his skull shape is non-Europid, but not too unreasonably beyond Europid variation. I've seen some extremes in our gene pool.
    It's difficult to speculate on his origin. So many blond populations occupied Anatolia. Here are a few.

    Ancient blond inhabitants of Anatolia:


    • Hittites (Indo-European)
    • Luvians/Luwians (Indo-European)
    -Carians (Indo-European)
    -Lycians (Indo-European)
    -Pisidians (Indo-European)
    -Sideans (Indo-European)
    • Phrygians (Indo-European)
    • Ionian Greeks (Indo-European)
    • Lydians (Indo-European)
    • Cimmerians (Indo-European)
    • Medes (Indo-European)
    • Persians (Indo-European)
    • The Lukkas? [a Sea People component] (IE?)
    • Gauls [La Tene Celts est. in Galatia] (Indo-European)
    • Romans (Indo-European)

    With even some Thracian and Phoenician overlap in Anatolia. Although Phoenicians were not an Indo-European people, many of them did have blond hair. Probably due to a large mercenary element in their population.

    The subject of this thread looks like a Roman to me. Although, I don't really know what many of the above listed exactly looked like. They could have looked Roman as well.

    Edit: I just checked out his Wiki-link. The guitarist for Necrophagist! Ha, I didn't notice it was him. I've seen him in person before. He's very talented and from what I remember, I believe he is very short. So you can add that to your analysis HamilkarBarkas. I could be wrong, it may have been another guy, but I think it was he that was about 165 cm.
    yDNA: R1a1a1
    mtDNA: H4a1
    Ancestry Painting: 100% European
    23andme Global Similarity: Dead center of English Cluster

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    Galatia

    infratetraskelion,
    thanks for your very informative input. I think that especially the hint to the Gauls, more concrete: the Galatians, could be quite helpful for the classification issue:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

    That the influence of the Galatians on Turkish history cannot be neglected to this day is reflected already by the fact that one of the most famous football (American: "soccer") clubs from Istanbul, nowadays less successful, is named "Galatasaray" which refers to the Galatians.

    I come back to my original classification attempt: As far as I know, "Norics", i.e. basically Dinarids with Nordid admixture or "nordicised" Dinarids look very similar to "Keltic Nordics", the latter being defined to my knowledge as basically Nordids with Dinarid admixture or "dinaricised" Nordids, provided this distinction makes sense at all. So, Suiçmez's ancestors could originally have been Galatians who immigrated to Anatolia with their tribe and whose progeny remained relatively isolated from heterogenous racial admixture for longer periods of time what seems likely to happen in remote Anatolian mountain valleys (similar developments can be observed e.g. in some regions in Afghanistan, were blond, blue-eyed people who could well be classified as nordid are relatively frequent). Over the centuries, there might have happened several adaptation processes. In the case of Suiçmez's ancestry, I consider as possible:

    a) dinarisation as adaptation to life in high mountain regions as herdsmen-warriors (food high in animal protein) on one hand
    b) alpinisation as adaptation to life in inhospitable, sparse, subdued conditions as peasants with low-energy food and very hard labour to gain it,

    dinarisation being IMO the more important process in this case and alpinisation of lesser importance. However, assuming an already Keltic Nordic, dinaroid basis of the man and provided he really is that short, alpinisation could be of greater impact in the present case. What makes me think of alpinisation here in the first place is - besides his presumed short and rather gracile looking stature - the tip of his nose which seems a little bit softened, rounded and fleshy.

    Other influences than the ones stated above are possible. However, I cannot detect any. I'm not really a specialist for skull shapes and details of a physiognomy, so I'm looking forward to receiving input from the real specialists here.
    Last edited by Waldstein; Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Overall improvement (Stringence)

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