View Poll Results: Is national socialism a germans' only ideology?

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  • Yes, only Germans can be true national socialists. It is not for export.

    32 28.07%
  • No, other immediately-related people like Germanic people can also practice it.

    16 14.04%
  • No, it can be practiced by any European (and European-descended) people.

    21 18.42%
  • No, it can be practiced by any European and "honorary" or allied people, e.g. Japan.

    20 17.54%
  • No, any nation in the world can practice national socialism.

    20 17.54%
  • Other opinion (please specify)

    5 4.39%
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Thread: Is National Socialism a Germans' Only Ideology?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Yes.
    How? How did it validate German superiority over everyone else?

    Yet, while their contributions are highly regarded, their works are not "the best" in racial science.
    Hans Guenther is good. But his blatant ridiculous nordicism is illogical, and ironically very disparaging to his own country. As you can see from the article I linked, most German racialists of the Reich went on an insane tangent about Nordic supremacy, even though barely half of Germany could have been considered Nordic.

    Nordic supremacy is illogical because it makes no sense when confronted with the fact that the dark little Phoenicians were more advanced than the pure Nordic regions of Europe. Or why the 'master' Nordic race (which apparently ruled over Persia, Rome and Greece) only succeeded with a slave race of Meds or Alpines.

    I consider Carlton Coon to be the best because he doesn't seem to want to prove a nationalist agenda in his works.


    We didn't talk about "race laws", but about an ideological concern for race.
    Germany's interest in racial education, so to say, didn't start, nor did it stop, at the Nuremberg Race Laws.
    E.g. SS Members were educated to look out for an appropriate mate, which included "sub"-racial characteristics.
    There was a strong acceptance of the idea, that the racially heterogeneous nation state should converge to a racial ideal and while this wasn't a law, it was part of NS doctrine, something you can't find in any fascist movement.

    You yourself seem to be stuck in the notion that race starts and ends with the nation border and the amount of foreigners within.
    Err no. I have argued many times that national borders do not represent race, specifically the folly in people who claim a 'Germanic race' exists.

    Either way, in the fascist movements it was generally the 'unsaid' assumption, you see, even though many of the fascist movements I sourced had leaders who spoke of the importance of race, and potential racial legislation if need be.

    So back to the entire point of this argument. You think the fact that because the NS movement was more focused on race than other fascist movements, it should not be included under the umbrella term fascism. You can think that if you like, sure it's your opinion. To me it's unimportant because most fascist movements believed in ethnic nationalism.

    Do you believe NS deserves it's own sphere outside of Fascism?

    Not irrelevant, because Hitler found similar tendencies of today's degenerate West within the Weimar Republic.
    To label him "immature" because he reacted to this tendencies, and didn't blindly trust his already degenerating people is pure bullshit, and I can't fathom why anyone who respects Mr. Hitler would thank you for your insult.
    No, because men like Hans Guenther with their radical espousal of racial doctrine were actually allowed to lecture at tertiary institutions even in the Weimar republic. It isn't comparable to today.

    I don't know where you are quoting my saying "immature" either. I said 'more mature' and did not specify a benchmark of maturity below which anything should be classified, anyway, which is entirely subjective (being my own opinion) and all you have to do is disagree.

    But I guess you just outlined the point in that last sentence. Germany was rapidly degenerating while generally the British Empire and the USA were not. So I would say you are right, Germany needed racial doctrine, but other countries' movements did not, necessarily. And this should not be a reason to separate them into entirely different categories, because the ideals on statehood, the nation and society were virtually in sync.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    How? How did it validate German superiority over everyone else?
    Through the scientific underlining of the philosophical principle of a unit of mind and body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Hans Guenther is good.
    V. Eickstedt was even better, and Kretschmar's work on psychology and morphology is even cited to this very day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    I consider Carlton Coon to be the best because he doesn't seem to want to prove a nationalist agenda in his works.
    Do you even know v. Eickstedt's works?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Err no. I have argued many times that national borders do not represent race, specifically the folly in people who claim a 'Germanic race' exists.
    So here you have your answer why a European nation should concern itself with race, despite not having any colonies or mass migration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Either way, in the fascist movements it was generally the 'unsaid' assumption, you see, even though many of the fascist movements I sourced had leaders who spoke of the importance of race, and potential racial legislation if need be.
    Your sources made it clear that this "racial" awareness is almost indistinguishable from national, or ethnic, awareness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Do you believe NS deserves it's own sphere outside of Fascism?
    Yes, Dr. Martin thinks so too, and makes a convincing case (cmp, the link in my previous post).


    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    No, because men like Hans Guenther with their radical espousal of racial doctrine were actually allowed to lecture at tertiary institutions even in the Weimar republic. It isn't comparable to today.
    I talked about tendencies, those were quite evident. The media was already heavily infiltrated by Jews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    I said 'more mature' and did not specify a benchmark of maturity below which anything should be classified, anyway, which is entirely subjective (being my own opinion) and all you have to do is disagree.
    You are either mature or you are not. And yes, I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    So I would say you are right, Germany needed racial doctrine, but other countries' movements did not, necessarily.
    They did, which is evident if you accept the truth of the NS world view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    And this should not be a reason to separate them into entirely different categories, because the ideals on statehood, the nation and society were virtually in sync.
    NS is a world view, in it's world view statehood, the nation and society are mere means to an end.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Through the scientific underlining of the philosophical principle of a unit of mind and body.
    Hold on a second. Did you just imply that Germans are superior to everyone else, even other Germanics?

    Do you even know v. Eickstedt's works?
    Nope but thanks for recommending them.

    Your sources made it clear that this "racial" awareness is almost indistinguishable from national, or ethnic, awareness.
    They did, which is evident if you accept the truth of the NS world view.

    NS is a world view, in it's world view statehood, the nation and society are mere means to an end.
    Ok I see where this is going, 'accept the truth of the NS world view'. Best for me not to go there because this sort of religious attitude towards a political doctrine, frankly, I find ridiculous.

    By the way, National Socialism was not very good at executing its apparent 'World View'. What is this world view anyhow? Race transcending nation and state?

    Then why were perfectly Nordid slavs were treated like absolute garbage by the 'dark little Southern Germans'? You should know that this was something that Baltic and Finnic SS volunteers joked about, the "Nachgedunkelte Schrumpfgermanen."

    I don't really see a 'world view' I just see plain old German ethnic nationalism.

  4. #164
    Senior Member Adalwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Hold on a second. Did you just imply that Germans are superior to everyone else, even other Germanics?
    To your question, a question: WHO in the world - be it one of the lesser races or one of the "other Germanics" - is supposed to be equal to the German people? The English, wo fought brutal wars against their own Germanic brethren in order to enhance their power (South Africa, Germany), and who fought the greatest war of all time in order to ensure the jews could seize Europe? Or the Norwegians? The Swedes? Excuse me, but is this supposed to be a joke? I do not intend to offend other Germanics here, but there is nothing wrong with simply admitting that we Germans are a superior lifeform, having fought two World Wars for the survival of the Germanic race and the freedom of Europe, having always shaped the world throughout our history, though through INTELLECT and DILIGENCE instead of violence, having made the MOST scientific, technological and cultural accomplishments.

    National Socialism means FORMATION of the German people. Our nation has always been strong, but as well been unaware of its strength. The Germans were scattered, each one working greatly, each one contributing, but without a common will, a commong KNOWING of oneself. That is the essence of National Socialism. State, society, army, youth and family are the means to make our people strong. And only he who is strong will survive.

    The whole era reaching from Martin Luther to the year 1945 represents the story of a nation ascending to godhood. Even the jews know that. That's why they call our downfall 'Götterdämmerung'. Now they want to become the gods of this world, instead of us Germans. The Romans tried it through force and suppression. We tried it through spirit and knowledge. They try it through deceit and lies.
    „So wie des Deutschen Vogel, der Aar, hoch über allem Getier dieser Erde schwebt, so soll der Deutsche sich erhaben fühlen über alles Gevölk, das ihn umgibt, und das er unter sich in grenzenloser Tiefe erblickt.“
    - Werner Sombart, "Händler und Helden"

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwolf View Post
    I do not intend to offend other Germanics here, but there is nothing wrong with simply admitting that we Germans are a superior lifeform,
    Ok this is just plain ridiculous, absolute crap and a total ad gentem. What kind of attitude is this?

    Sure, I bet the English, Scandinavians and Dutch are going to take no offense to you telling them/us we are inferior. Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwolf View Post
    And only he who is strong will survive. .
    Now, 'I don't intend to offend' you , but your logic is flawed. First of all, as a German, I don't see why you would say that because your nation lost, and if this is 'might makes right', then that means you agree with everything the Russians did, and you are agreeing that the Russians deserve to survive over you because they were 'strong'.

    Give up that 'might is right' logic because it is a total hypocrisy. If you really followed this logic, you would be saying the Reich died, RIP. Now I assume you aren't a defeatist, so refine your logic.

  6. #166
    Senior Member Adalwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Ok this is just plain ridiculous, absolute crap and a total ad gentem. What kind of attitude is this?
    And of what use is acknowledging the existence of races and nations when we do not also acknowledge that they are of different value?

    Look at it this way: I could also tell you beautiful tales about equality and the likes, just as the jews do. I do not, however, preferring instead to honestly express my thoughts.

    Anyway, it does not answer my question. IF we are not superior, then who is? Prove to me that the Norwegians had a more important role in history, that THEY dominated Europe through their knowledge and intellect, that THEY made the most important inventions, from the airplane to the computer, from Hegelian dialectic to National Socialism. I shall believe you if you do.
    „So wie des Deutschen Vogel, der Aar, hoch über allem Getier dieser Erde schwebt, so soll der Deutsche sich erhaben fühlen über alles Gevölk, das ihn umgibt, und das er unter sich in grenzenloser Tiefe erblickt.“
    - Werner Sombart, "Händler und Helden"

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwolf View Post
    And of what use is acknowledging the existence of races and nations when we do not also acknowledge that they are of different value?

    Look at it this way: I could also tell you beautiful tales about equality and the likes, just as the jews do. I do not, however, preferring instead to honestly express my thoughts.
    Here is the problem, your Fuehrer absolutely loved and adored us. It was his lifelong dream to build an Anglo-German alliance. So are you not understanding National Socialism by dragging us over the coals?

    Acknowledging nations are of different value is all well and good, but we must go on quality rather than quantity. In answer to your point below but also relevant to this: Norway has only 5 million people, of great quality, Germany has more than 10 times that, of also great quality. Does this make Norway inferior simply because geography does not allow to build a comparably large population base?

    Anyway, it does not answer my question. IF we are not superior, then who is? Prove to me that the Norwegians had a more important role in history, that THEY dominated Europe through their knowledge and intellect, that THEY made the most important inventions, from the airplane to the computer, from Hegelian dialectic to National Socialism. I shall believe you if you do.
    Germany invented the airplane? Shit, better tell the Wright brothers! Another error here because the computer was invented by Anglo-Saxons.

    I have a big issue here. I admire the Third Reich and German history in general, like most people here, so I really hate having to cut down an overly boastful German who thinks he's the king of the world. Firstly, I am sorry, but you lost WWI and WWII. And if you are one of those 'Might makes right' types (and I think you are), you have to concede to the victors. Secondly, I am sorry but for all your boasts your nation is made up of people still miserable over the Holocaust, and afraid to be proud of their heritage. Everything back to Luther has been stigmatised by the Sonderweg. So I think the best thing you can do is stop claiming to be the king, while no one in your own nation will even listen to you.

    Now, I will clarify my stance again, I admire the Third Reich and German history, and am not a believer in might makes right, but I simply have to cut people like you down with your own logic and the facts of history. God man, what would Hitler say to you?

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Hold on a second. Did you just imply that Germans are superior to everyone else, even other Germanics?
    Of course
    Frankly, Germans have always been very objective, this aided us in scientific advances, but hindered us in political ones.
    A term like "Right or wrong - my country" could have never emerged in Germany. It was time to put some subjectivity into the German mind, and in Germany this meant it had to happen objectively

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Ok I see where this is going, 'accept the truth of the NS world view'. Best for me not to go there because this sort of religious attitude towards a political doctrine, frankly, I find ridiculous.
    I do not see what religion has to do with this, I could have said: "If you agree with the arguments put forth by NS to support their claims about how the world is functioning", this would imply to accept the truth of their statements, their world view, would it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    What is this world view anyhow? Race transcending nation and state?
    You can read it in the "Myth of the 20. Century" by Rosenberg, or in A. Hitler's "Mein Kampf", as the most prominent examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodericus View Post
    Then why were perfectly Nordid slavs were treated like absolute garbage by the 'dark little Southern Germans'?
    Because they fought the advancement of the German people, dark little Southern Germans who fight for the advancement of the German people are much more worth.
    That race alone can be a guarantor for the worth of a person is a ridiculous statement never ever uttered by anyone of NS authority, this would imply that a Nordid criminal can't be sentenced because he is Nordid?
    Nordid Slavs who fought for Germany were not treated like garbage.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Of course
    Frankly, Germans have always been very objective, this aided us in scientific advances, but hindered us in political ones.
    A term like "Right or wrong - my country" could have never emerged in Germany. It was time to put some subjectivity into the German mind, and in Germany this meant it had to happen objectively
    Why not keep your supposed German superiority amongst yourselves, eh? I know that Thiazi is down and all, but please try. Not because I am convinced or anything, but because this will cause unnecessary animosity on a pan-Germanic board, and ridiculous competition between the Germanic peoples of the board in proving their heritage's worth.


    Because they fought the advancement of the German people, dark little Southern Germans who fight for the advancement of the German people are much more worth.
    That race alone can be a guarantor for the worth of a person is a ridiculous statement never ever uttered by anyone of NS authority, this would imply that a Nordid criminal can't be sentenced because he is Nordid?
    Nordid Slavs who fought for Germany were not treated like garbage.
    Yes, they are of more worth, to me of course. But this is simply German ethnic nationalism, or as Sigyn says, 'German tribalism'.

    Racially, the Niedersachsen has more in common with Norwegians and Nordic Slavs. This is why anything based purely on race is flawed, because spiritually and culturally he is more entwined with the non-Nordic southern Germans. Race is a concern, but it is ethnicity that really counts (which covers race anyhow).

  10. #170
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    Anyway, it does not answer my question. IF we are not superior, then who is?
    Adalwolf, you have worded your question in such a way as to make anyone who answers it on behalf of their own nation sound like an arrogant buffoon So I don't think there will be any takers, purely for this reason alone!

    Furthermore, this sort of talk, as well as being divisive within the Germanic community, merely confirms a certain stereotype about Germans so if you're not careful you will portray yourself as having precisely those characteristics that are so widespread in comic books

    Now it appears that Jäger has reinforced this view. TBQH, I'd have to say that there is an unpleasant undercurrent of German superiority on Skadi that is never too far from the surface. I'm sure most would accept that I'm about as germanophile as you'd get (outside of Germany itself) but this is a bridge too far for me, and when you get folks openly crowing about how their country is better than others - even naming places that they deem inferior (Sweden, Norway, England etc..) then it all becomes very tasteless.

    And please don't answer back that the best have the right to brag because they don't! Brashness is always an unpleasant trait, wherever it crops up, and maybe some of our cockier German friends should take a lesson from their 'inferior' Germanic brothers on how to conduct themselves properly.

    Greatness (either real or imaginary) is NOTHING without humility

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